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by **kirk** » Mon May 14, 2012 8:08 pm

stealthlol wrote:That doesn't make any sense at all, you can be second, third, fourth... hell you can even be fifth.

by **stealthlol** » Mon May 14, 2012 8:06 pm

alex kirk wrote:
stealthlol wrote:What if I say we were both right and we agree to disagree?
Are you high? You know I never share first place.

If you're not first, you're last.

That doesn't make any sense at all, you can be second, third, fourth... hell you can even be fifth.

by **kirk** » Mon May 14, 2012 4:12 pm

stealthlol wrote:What if I say we were both right and we agree to disagree?

Are you high? You know I never share first place.

If you're not first, you're last.

by **stealthlol** » Mon May 14, 2012 4:09 pm

alex kirk wrote:
stealthlol wrote:I understand what you 're saying. Watching a movie of someone like kellen getting those kills against coL would certainly be more impressive than if he was playing a team that didn't stand a chance. However, when it comes to euro dod, how many people can look at the kills and say, "Well he's obviously playing a bunch of shitty kids."
Just acknowledge that my opinion on this subjective matter is better than yours and we'll be on speaking terms again.

What if I say we were both right and we agree to disagree?

by **kirk** » Mon May 14, 2012 4:00 pm

stealthlol wrote:I understand what you 're saying. Watching a movie of someone like kellen getting those kills against coL would certainly be more impressive than if he was playing a team that didn't stand a chance. However, when it comes to euro dod, how many people can look at the kills and say, "Well he's obviously playing a bunch of shitty kids."

Just acknowledge that my opinion on this subjective matter is better than yours and we'll be on speaking terms again.

by **stealthlol** » Mon May 14, 2012 12:44 pm

alex kirk wrote:@Kevin - I don't care if someone is shooting back or not during footage. What matters is whether they are capable of shooting back. People didn't really shoot back at Kellen when he was destroying coL at their first on anzio - but we know that's simply because Kellen was just quicker than they were and they didn't really have the opportunity.

I understand what you 're saying. Watching a movie of someone like kellen getting those kills against coL would certainly be more impressive than if he was playing a team that didn't stand a chance. However, when it comes to euro dod, how many people can look at the kills and say, "Well he's obviously playing a bunch of shitty kids."

cassinoroyale wrote:Exactly. In the end, this is all a matter of opinion. Mine's different. I'd rather see a 3-5 kills streak of a playoffs or lan match than amazing killstreaks / no scopes /long distance pistol shots of 12mans/scrims, where we clearly know that there isn't no pressure around.

Obviously you're not playing pugs correctly!

It makes sense to want to watch movies were you know there was some sort of pressure that makes the shots more worthy, but I think that mentality should be left somewhere before 2008. When the only league is TPG, no lans in the foreseeable future, and only one match night per week, there aren't the opportunities to get a good deal of footage.

by **cassinoroyale** » Mon May 14, 2012 11:09 am

An1maL wrote:Please point out a scene where they even had the CHANCE to shoot me before they died. the only scene I can think of is 5:20 against zP! on sherman, antrax missed me a few times, which was unlike him, but i was standing behind that weird rubble that sometimes gave reg issues.

First of all, your 4th movie installment, reflex, is one of the best movies ever made, that's a fact and I'm not trying to take away its greatness in any way, if you have interpretated in that way I apologize. Secondly, what I meant is that some of the clips may look like the opponents weren't aware about your position or had bad headphones hence not shooting you back. Id est when you perform the triple kill clutch jumping in the beach house window no one seem to shoot you at all. Many recent (1-3 years ago) euro movies have like team downs or crazy streaks with the shooter not geting any damage or naded in any moment, just shooting people pushing while sprinting or performing perfect peeks / no scopes all the time. I agree with your point that some people used scrims footage back then because at the time teams were trying their best on it, but it was like 5-8 years ago. Continuing to use them nowadays where there is like only 1-2 really good teams is lame, in my opinion. Lastly, I enjoyed playing all the cups / leagues I played in. I see calli is trying to gather euro teams acceptance for trying another TPG euro division and I wish good luck to him in the task. And I don't hate euros. They already do it in a considerably fashion for themselves.

stealthlol wrote:It's obviously just my personal opinion, but I watch frag videos to see shots that I've never seen before or really impressive streaks.

Exactly. In the end, this is all a matter of opinion. Mine's different. I'd rather see a 3-5 kills streak of a playoffs or lan match than amazing killstreaks / no scopes /long distance pistol shots of 12mans/scrims, where we clearly know that there isn't no pressure around.

by **nik** » Mon May 14, 2012 11:00 am

That is an easy thing to say for an American. Where dod didn't die in 2005.
If you watch an1's 4th movie. I believe most of the clans he played folded that same year.
Together with cdodl , CLanbase 1.3 support (maybe opencup ran another season but they quit nationscups and eurocups), anticheat, etc.

Imagine cpl 04-06 being in europe. Americans not being able to go (money,sponsors etc) and caL quiting 1.3 in 2005.
It's a different scene. You can't really compare it and call any euro that records a pcw an asshole.

by **scorch-** » Mon May 14, 2012 10:57 am

alex kirk wrote:
stealthlol wrote:
An1maL wrote:what makes a game 'official' anyway? the fact that it says so on some little website somewhere? it's still 12 guys playing a game, and if someone does something sick it's still impressive imo!
This. Also, why do people complain about people not shooting back in movies? The same way everyone says, "You can't tell if someone is cheating from a frag video because you don't have the whole picture." Isn't that the same logic?
@An1maL - in a way, yes. If two football teams were practicing, the stats a player attains from that practice really doesn't matter. No one will think much of it. Why? Because it doesn't mean anything. It's practice. What matters is what that player does when it counts. Regarding video games, that means the footage coming from an official match where both teams are trying to win, taking it seriously (as much as possible), not simply going for frags (lol hey Jarrod), etc.

@Kevin - I don't care if someone is shooting back or not during footage. What matters is whether they are capable of shooting back. People didn't really shoot back at Kellen when he was destroying coL at their first on anzio - but we know that's simply because Kellen was just quicker than they were and they didn't really have the opportunity.

This is mostly my opinion on it. A lot of practice is people trying out new things, maybe not communicating that well, preparing for a match. Sure it's impressive to watch ridiculous shots, but again, if you record scrims so that you can make a movie, you're an asshole.

by **kirk** » Mon May 14, 2012 9:37 am

stealthlol wrote:
An1maL wrote:what makes a game 'official' anyway? the fact that it says so on some little website somewhere? it's still 12 guys playing a game, and if someone does something sick it's still impressive imo!
This. Also, why do people complain about people not shooting back in movies? The same way everyone says, "You can't tell if someone is cheating from a frag video because you don't have the whole picture." Isn't that the same logic?

@An1maL - in a way, yes. If two football teams were practicing, the stats a player attains from that practice really doesn't matter. No one will think much of it. Why? Because it doesn't mean anything. It's practice. What matters is what that player does when it counts. Regarding video games, that means the footage coming from an official match where both teams are trying to win, taking it seriously (as much as possible), not simply going for frags (lol hey Jarrod), etc.

@Kevin - I don't care if someone is shooting back or not during footage. What matters is whether they are capable of shooting back. People didn't really shoot back at Kellen when he was destroying coL at their first on anzio - but we know that's simply because Kellen was just quicker than they were and they didn't really have the opportunity.

by **nik** » Mon May 14, 2012 8:19 am

Scrim footage is a subjective thing. Past years I can't really distinguish scims from officials in Europe. The scene is to dead. The cups left do not mean that much anymore in my opinion. Last eurocup 1 team reached the finals on just default wins. To make a new only official fragvid now would take a person 5 years. + there's the chance that the teams they do play in official games are worse than the teams they play in pcws. Because you can choose pcw opponents. In cups you have no choice and there are no longer high med and low skill leagues and ladders.

Past years I did enjoy many of the clan vs clan scims. Like pressure, amnesia vs Deathclan/zoo or arsenik or EUS. Because they did not want to lose. Not even pcws (especially DEATHCLAN). It was all we had left (and some rare ED games if enough people showed up). On the other hand I absolutely hate playing random mixes because of the attitude of players in these games, they play only for frags or ego.

by **stealthlol** » Mon May 14, 2012 8:11 am

An1maL wrote:what makes a game 'official' anyway? the fact that it says so on some little website somewhere? it's still 12 guys playing a game, and if someone does something sick it's still impressive imo!

This. Also, why do people complain about people not shooting back in movies? The same way everyone says, "You can't tell if someone is cheating from a frag video because you don't have the whole picture." Isn't that the same logic?

by **An1maL** » Mon May 14, 2012 7:05 am

wow flashback to 8 years ago! awesome. I may aswell wade in

There is no doubting the skill of the opponents in 'reflex', every one of the opposition were eurocup level (equivalent to cal-i; they were very good), they were very well known in the community, except maybe karvalakki and snaps. Please point out a scene where they even had the CHANCE to shoot me before they died. the only scene I can think of is 5:20 against zP! on sherman, antrax missed me a few times, which was unlike him, but i was standing behind that weird rubble that sometimes gave reg issues.

I remember discussing this with kellen at the time. without blowing my own horn, good players make the game look easy, I think there's an element of that going on here (I could say the same about watching some of kellen's movies). in reality it was happening a lot faster than it looks imo! amongst the top5 clans everyone basically has the same reactions and aim, the only difference is how you manipulate each situation positionally to give yourself an advantage. if I do that over a period of months, eventually i'm going to have some nice sprees for a movie.

with regards to whether people should include scenes from scrims etc, I think in reflex it was about 70% officials and 30% PCW's, and 1 or 2 scenes where i was a ringer for another team. I agree that the fact that it isn't an official game detracts from how impressive a scene is, but not to the extent that it's worthless. I wouldn't ever include a scene from some random 12 man and expect it to be taken seriously. Though I think we took our PCW's a little more seriously in europe - everyone was trying as hard as usual because pride was still at stake (people would publish pcw results on their websites etc). what makes a game 'official' anyway? the fact that it says so on some little website somewhere? it's still 12 guys playing a game, and if someone does something sick it's still impressive imo!

rant over, you may continue to hate on euros as you wish

by **cassinoroyale** » Sun May 13, 2012 5:31 pm

nik wrote:even without euro's involved in the thread it turns into the same flamewar.
It is rather sad and you should be ashamed.

random example.

an1mal 4 - reflex
Possibly greatest FRAG video ever made. BECAUSE
NONE of all the claims made in this thread apply

This video is actually very very good but it has some moments that its like "how haven't they shot him back?". Let me refresh for you that it's not a matter of having euros arguing here or not, it's just a fact that the most of the euro movies are lame because they have a lot of crazy shots against random/unknown people.

by **nik** » Sun May 13, 2012 4:05 pm

even without euro's involved in the thread it turns into the same flamewar.
It is rather sad and you should be ashamed.

random example.

an1mal 4 - reflex
Possibly greatest FRAG video ever made. BECAUSE
NONE of all the claims made in this thread apply

by **stealthlol** » Sun May 13, 2012 12:03 pm

joeledmunds wrote:I hit ridiculous shots in 12mans because they are 12mans, and I'm willing to go for them because I'm not playing for anything other than getting frags.

Even though you're saying the opposite of what I was, Joel, I'm using this quote because it's exactly what I am trying to say. It's obviously just my personal opinion, but I watch frag videos to see shots that I've never seen before or really impressive streaks. Whether they be in scrims, 12mans, or matches.

To end/sum it up: People go for more amusing/entertaining shots in scrims/pugs. Those are the shots that (TO ME) are more interesting to watch.

by **joeledmunds** » Sun May 13, 2012 10:58 am

Scrim footage is pretty weak. I hit ridiculous shots in 12mans because they are 12mans, and I'm willing to go for them because I'm not playing for anything other than getting frags. I like to win matches (except presason ones, which actually rank lower than 12mans due to silly map choices.

by **mexicant** » Sun May 13, 2012 10:52 am

scorch- wrote:
stealthlol wrote:
Jb_ wrote:Uh no.... Thats not what I said or meant at all. All im saying is I enjoy watching movies knowing that the person in that movie is making those shots while under some kinda of pressure. Whats has more value to it? Watching Kobe Hit a late 3 with 1 second left to win game 7 or him making a 3 during a shoot around? Think about it and stop trying to argue with everything I say.
I was about to say I can see where you're coming from until that last sentence. If you don't like people disagreeing with you, why bother starting an argument?

I do understand the fact that seeing someone sink a 3-pointer at the last second is better than watching practices, but that's for a REAL sport. Practicing dod isn't six guys running around practicing their shots--that would just be pubbing. Despite what everyone likes to say, 99% of people try hard in scrims, so the shots they make are still clutch. After most 12mans, I hear people say "I think we still won." This is a video game. The frag videos aren't going to earn somebody a sponsorship and millions of dollars. So why not show shots that are more impressive than people in matches? I'd rather see somebody get ridiculous wall shots than what some people considers worthy streaks in matches.
I'll clear this up for you. If you record scrims for your movie you're an asshole.

by **scorch-** » Sun May 13, 2012 10:45 am

stealthlol wrote:
Jb_ wrote:Uh no.... Thats not what I said or meant at all. All im saying is I enjoy watching movies knowing that the person in that movie is making those shots while under some kinda of pressure. Whats has more value to it? Watching Kobe Hit a late 3 with 1 second left to win game 7 or him making a 3 during a shoot around? Think about it and stop trying to argue with everything I say.
I was about to say I can see where you're coming from until that last sentence. If you don't like people disagreeing with you, why bother starting an argument?

I do understand the fact that seeing someone sink a 3-pointer at the last second is better than watching practices, but that's for a REAL sport. Practicing dod isn't six guys running around practicing their shots--that would just be pubbing. Despite what everyone likes to say, 99% of people try hard in scrims, so the shots they make are still clutch. After most 12mans, I hear people say "I think we still won." This is a video game. The frag videos aren't going to earn somebody a sponsorship and millions of dollars. So why not show shots that are more impressive than people in matches? I'd rather see somebody get ridiculous wall shots than what some people considers worthy streaks in matches.

I'll clear this up for you. If you record scrims for your movie you're an asshole.

by **stealthlol** » Sun May 13, 2012 9:57 am

Jb_ wrote:Uh no.... Thats not what I said or meant at all. All im saying is I enjoy watching movies knowing that the person in that movie is making those shots while under some kinda of pressure. Whats has more value to it? Watching Kobe Hit a late 3 with 1 second left to win game 7 or him making a 3 during a shoot around? Think about it and stop trying to argue with everything I say.

I was about to say I can see where you're coming from until that last sentence. If you don't like people disagreeing with you, why bother starting an argument?

I do understand the fact that seeing someone sink a 3-pointer at the last second is better than watching practices, but that's for a REAL sport. Practicing dod isn't six guys running around practicing their shots--that would just be pubbing. Despite what everyone likes to say, 99% of people try hard in scrims, so the shots they make are still clutch. After most 12mans, I hear people say "I think we still won." This is a video game. The frag videos aren't going to earn somebody a sponsorship and millions of dollars. So why not show shots that are more impressive than people in matches? I'd rather see somebody get ridiculous wall shots than what some people considers worthy streaks in matches.

by **Jb_** » Sun May 13, 2012 9:42 am

stealthlol wrote:
Jb_ wrote:The same reason we pay athletes so much money to perform big when the time comes. Everyone can have a good pickup game but only people like Kobe get the job done when it matters. Theres alot more value to a movie if those clips are coming from real clutch moments that actually meant something. Anybody on this forum can go into these silly ass pubs around here and look amazing. Does that mean I wanna watch d-bo pub kill a a bunch of kids or do I wanna watch Alex Kirk clutch it up in the tpg finals? You tell me which one would be worth watching?

f.y.i alex kirk was just an example, we all know he would never make the tpg finals.....lewl
I never said anything about pubs. And how do professional athletes relate to playing day of defeat matches once a week? If you're watching a couple kids play basketball and they make a full court shot, is that not still impressive? They're not getting paid, but that shouldn't be relevant. When it comes to dod, a shot being made against six people in a pug will look the exact same if those six people are on a team. Taking it the way you put it, movies should only ever be made out of LAN shots because online matches never meant anything other than e-fame.

Uh no.... Thats not what I said or meant at all. All im saying is I enjoy watching movies knowing that the person in that movie is making those shots while under some kinda of pressure. Whats has more value to it? Watching Kobe Hit a late 3 with 1 second left to win game 7 or him making a 3 during a shoot around? Think about it and stop trying to argue with everything I say.

by **toxinatoR** » Sun May 13, 2012 8:40 am

scrim footage is lame.

by **stealthlol** » Sun May 13, 2012 8:36 am

Jb_ wrote:The same reason we pay athletes so much money to perform big when the time comes. Everyone can have a good pickup game but only people like Kobe get the job done when it matters. Theres alot more value to a movie if those clips are coming from real clutch moments that actually meant something. Anybody on this forum can go into these silly ass pubs around here and look amazing. Does that mean I wanna watch d-bo pub kill a a bunch of kids or do I wanna watch Alex Kirk clutch it up in the tpg finals? You tell me which one would be worth watching?

f.y.i alex kirk was just an example, we all know he would never make the tpg finals.....lewl

I never said anything about pubs. And how do professional athletes relate to playing day of defeat matches once a week? If you're watching a couple kids play basketball and they make a full court shot, is that not still impressive? They're not getting paid, but that shouldn't be relevant. When it comes to dod, a shot being made against six people in a pug will look the exact same if those six people are on a team. Taking it the way you put it, movies should only ever be made out of LAN shots because online matches never meant anything other than e-fame.

by **kirk** » Sun May 13, 2012 7:57 am

Jb_ wrote:The same reason we pay athletes so much money to perform big when the time comes. Everyone can have a good pickup game but only people like Kobe get the job done when it matters. Theres alot more value to a movie if those clips are coming from real clutch moments that actually meant something. Anybody on this forum can go into these silly ass pubs around here and look amazing. Does that mean I wanna watch d-bo pub kill a a bunch of kids or do I wanna watch Alex Kirk clutch it up in the tpg finals? You tell me which one would be worth watching?

f.y.i alex kirk was just an example, we all know he would never make the tpg finals.....lewl

Says the guy in TPG-lower who similarly has not figured out how to kill zombies on easy mode.

by **Jb_** » Sun May 13, 2012 7:27 am

stealthlol wrote:
alex kirk wrote:
yellowteeth wrote:Sorry old chum, I don't think you really have a clue about what you're saying.
Pretty well known that a lot of their footage comes from scrims/pugs.
I never understood why the people in NA were so against that idea. 3/4 the shots I make in scrim/pugs are way better than in matches because I'm not trying to win the pug. I'm playing for fun and doing stupid shit that ends up being amazing.

The same reason we pay athletes so much money to perform big when the time comes. Everyone can have a good pickup game but only people like Kobe get the job done when it matters. Theres alot more value to a movie if those clips are coming from real clutch moments that actually meant something. Anybody on this forum can go into these silly ass pubs around here and look amazing. Does that mean I wanna watch d-bo pub kill a a bunch of kids or do I wanna watch Alex Kirk clutch it up in the tpg finals? You tell me which one would be worth watching?

f.y.i alex kirk was just an example, we all know he would never make the tpg finals.....lewl

by **stealthlol** » Sun May 13, 2012 7:10 am

alex kirk wrote:
stealthlol wrote:
alex kirk wrote: Pretty well known that a lot of their footage comes from scrims/pugs.
I never understood why the people in NA were so against that idea. 3/4 the shots I make in scrim/pugs are way better than in matches because I'm not trying to win the pug. I'm playing for fun and doing stupid shit that ends up being amazing.
Because you're the only person who tries in scrims.

by **cassinoroyale** » Sat May 12, 2012 7:22 pm

yellowteeth wrote:
cassinoroyale wrote:they do movies against people who don't shoot back

rest in peace, dead euro dod scene
Sorry old chum, I don't think you really have a clue about what you're saying.

by **kirk** » Sat May 12, 2012 6:17 pm

stealthlol wrote:
alex kirk wrote:
yellowteeth wrote:Sorry old chum, I don't think you really have a clue about what you're saying.
Pretty well known that a lot of their footage comes from scrims/pugs.
I never understood why the people in NA were so against that idea. 3/4 the shots I make in scrim/pugs are way better than in matches because I'm not trying to win the pug. I'm playing for fun and doing stupid shit that ends up being amazing.

Because you're the only person who tries in scrims.

by **stealthlol** » Sat May 12, 2012 5:39 pm

alex kirk wrote:
yellowteeth wrote:Sorry old chum, I don't think you really have a clue about what you're saying.
Pretty well known that a lot of their footage comes from scrims/pugs.

I never understood why the people in NA were so against that idea. 3/4 the shots I make in scrim/pugs are way better than in matches because I'm not trying to win the pug. I'm playing for fun and doing stupid shit that ends up being amazing.

by **kirk** » Sat May 12, 2012 5:08 pm

yellowteeth wrote:Sorry old chum, I don't think you really have a clue about what you're saying.

Pretty well known that a lot of their footage comes from scrims/pugs.

by **yellowteeth** » Sat May 12, 2012 4:54 pm

cassinoroyale wrote:they do movies against people who don't shoot back

rest in peace, dead euro dod scene

Sorry old chum, I don't think you really have a clue about what you're saying.

by **james-** » Sat May 12, 2012 2:34 pm

no plaza terror?

by **kirk** » Sat May 12, 2012 1:46 pm

Jb_ wrote:is this real? Did you atleast get a reach around for this?

If he answers "yes," will you get a chubby?

Please respond.

by **cassinoroyale** » Sat May 12, 2012 1:21 pm

they do movies against people who don't shoot back

rest in peace, dead euro dod scene

by **fghtffyrdmns** » Sat May 12, 2012 12:04 pm

the only difference is their fiber optic connection with 5 ping

oh and a lot of the euro movies look like the demos are recorded in pubs

by **Jb_** » Sat May 12, 2012 8:31 am

is this real? Did you atleast get a reach around for this?

by **theshizz** » Sat May 12, 2012 3:51 am

you new breh?

by **knives** » Sat May 12, 2012 2:24 am

1 month ago ive spectated the final of the euro competition between ninja zombies and the .eu team zOo .
I was kinda impressed by zOos lights so i started to check for some movies on yt.
This is what i found:

rezi : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTkSm0lsdCs
an1mal : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LwpI7blPXU
stin : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rD5mKAFcseI and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBXbd0I0 ... ure=relmfu
rezi + stin : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFyKNxoQiTM
ralle : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwfVgmetelc
Jaunty : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1-5Hyz7LXU

and there are many more. They shoot in a completly different way . the recoil is amazing and looks like they just rush rush and rush....

well maybe those are just movies !

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