1911 Beta

by **3SidedQuarter** » Sun Apr 21, 2013 12:51 pm

gOweSBJg59g

by **scorch-** » Thu Apr 04, 2013 2:38 pm

alex kirk wrote:
rehpyc wrote:Take away the costs of the war on drugs and incarceration of those involved in drug deals - say drugs are legalized. The base cost on society induced by drug use compared to obesity is what I'm interested in.
Right, and if that were the case, I assume obesity would be much costlier.

Can you really quantify the cost to society of supporting institutions like planet fitness?

by **CraftyDus** » Thu Apr 04, 2013 12:54 pm

milo wrote:The only thing that I shoot up is MY BARZ LOL THAT GUN GOES STRAIGHT UP

by **kirk** » Thu Apr 04, 2013 12:18 pm

rehpyc wrote:Take away the costs of the war on drugs and incarceration of those involved in drug deals - say drugs are legalized. The base cost on society induced by drug use compared to obesity is what I'm interested in.

Right, and if that were the case, I assume obesity would be much costlier.

by **james-** » Thu Apr 04, 2013 12:15 pm

Any of you guys use silk road to sell stuff?

Need moar info on doing this.

by **rehpyc** » Thu Apr 04, 2013 12:06 pm

alex kirk wrote:If drug use was legalized then it would probably be less costly than obesity. Given the costs of the war on drugs, incarceration for all substance-related crimes, physical health costs, mental health costs, etc. I imagine that outweighs the cost of obesity. Could be wrong, but just a guess.

Take away the costs of the war on drugs and incarceration of those involved in drug deals - say drugs are legalized. The base cost on society induced by drug use compared to obesity is what I'm interested in.

by **scorch-** » Thu Apr 04, 2013 11:54 am

alex kirk wrote:
rehpyc wrote:1 - Stop being 1911's go-to psychologist :p You had to of known you wouldn't get a thorough, honest enough answer from him about his personal life to really take the conversation in the direction you may have wanted it to develop towards.

2 - Agreed. This is where I initially posted "as long as they aren't a burden to others, who should care or judge?" I wonder if obesity has posed a higher cost to our society than drug use?
I was asking a pretty basic question and he turned it into something it wasn't. I didn't think he would react that way, no, since he was advertising his drug use on an internet forum.

If drug use was legalized then it would probably be less costly than obesity. Given the costs of the war on drugs, incarceration for all substance-related crimes, physical health costs, mental health costs, etc. I imagine that outweighs the cost of obesity. Could be wrong, but just a guess.

If you had a penny for every time someone didn't get laid because they were obese, you'd be a very rich person.

by **kirk** » Thu Apr 04, 2013 11:46 am

rehpyc wrote:1 - Stop being 1911's go-to psychologist :p You had to of known you wouldn't get a thorough, honest enough answer from him about his personal life to really take the conversation in the direction you may have wanted it to develop towards.

2 - Agreed. This is where I initially posted "as long as they aren't a burden to others, who should care or judge?" I wonder if obesity has posed a higher cost to our society than drug use?

I was asking a pretty basic question and he turned it into something it wasn't. I didn't think he would react that way, no, since he was advertising his drug use on an internet forum.

If drug use was legalized then it would probably be less costly than obesity. Given the costs of the war on drugs, incarceration for all substance-related crimes, physical health costs, mental health costs, etc. I imagine that outweighs the cost of obesity. Could be wrong, but just a guess.

by **rehpyc** » Thu Apr 04, 2013 11:43 am

1 - Stop being 1911's go-to psychologist :p You had to of known you wouldn't get a thorough, honest enough answer from him about his personal life to really take the conversation in the direction you may have wanted it to develop towards.

2 - Agreed. This is where I initially posted "as long as they aren't a burden to others, who should care or judge?" I wonder if obesity has posed a higher cost to our society than drug use?

by **kirk** » Thu Apr 04, 2013 11:29 am

rehpyc wrote:I only briefly browsed through a lot of the posts, but it seems that you were trying to convince Gorilla he does have some dependency on the drugs and something in his life would change if he stopped. Obviously ceasing to partake in an activity that's a regular in your lifestyle would create a void that gets filled by something else..

It was more explaining that an ability to function at work or in a relationship =/= functional. There is far more to it than that. Interestingly your last statement is something Gorilla couldn't understand.

Sure, something like heroin has a higher probability of being problematic and threatening for him, but if it doesn't then who cares? Who cares about why he chooses it? Who cares about the cost? The same could be said for any number of things that each of us have an addiction with and do in excess, the ones I listed only being a few, could it not?

(forgive me if not following the entire thread has had me miss something)

I could not care less what he does in some sense, but I would bring up a few points:

1) As already stated, assessing whether something is problematic involves more examination than physical dependency, work life, home life, etc. It's a little deeper than that. This is the main point I was explaining; not that he is a bad person or needs to shape up his life.

2) The cost is something potentially incurred by others. What happens if he ODs and goes to the hospital? That has implications for everyone, and that's a major reason why our cost of health care is so high. People being "allowed" to do what they want, getting hurt, and then costs go up. This is why motorcyclists need to wear helmets. This same thing can be said for MANY things in society, just pointing it out here.

So on some level, yes we should care what others do only when those things pose negative consequences for the rest of us. Drug use, being overweight, not wearing a helmet, etc. all fall in this category.

by **rehpyc** » Thu Apr 04, 2013 11:12 am

alex kirk wrote:
rehpyc wrote:sex.. drugs.. alcohol.. gaming.. pointless arguing on the internet

really, who gives two fucks what someone else does with their life or enjoys doing when they aren't working and contributing to society? as long as they aren't a burden to others, who should care or judge?
The debate has been on the potential harm or threat with "recreational" drug use, specifically with hard drugs. NOT a moral, legal, or ethical debate.

I only briefly browsed through a lot of the posts, but it seems that you were trying to convince Gorilla he does have some dependency on the drugs and something in his life would change if he stopped. Obviously ceasing to partake in an activity that's a regular in your lifestyle would create a void that gets filled by something else..

Sure, something like heroin has a higher probability of being problematic and threatening for him, but if it doesn't then who cares? Who cares about why he chooses it? Who cares about the cost? The same could be said for any number of things that each of us have an addiction with and do in excess, the ones I listed only being a few, could it not?

(forgive me if not following the entire thread has had me miss something)

by **kirk** » Thu Apr 04, 2013 10:02 am

rehpyc wrote:sex.. drugs.. alcohol.. gaming.. pointless arguing on the internet

really, who gives two fucks what someone else does with their life or enjoys doing when they aren't working and contributing to society? as long as they aren't a burden to others, who should care or judge?

The debate has been on the potential harm or threat with "recreational" drug use, specifically with hard drugs. NOT a moral, legal, or ethical debate.

Gorillabc wrote:Ok? So you're trying to find out if something other than physical withdrawl happens if I stop? No, it doesn't. I've gone on several week long trips for work and vacations and not done it, and I'm fine. Like I said, I do it because I like the way it makes me feel. Nothing else. If I don't have it, oh well. It's just something extra to enjoy. Just so you know, I'm not going to respond again. This is getting extremely redundant, and I'm annoyed.

Your presence will be missed.

by **Gorillabc** » Thu Apr 04, 2013 9:21 am

Ok? So you're trying to find out if something other than physical withdrawl happens if I stop? No, it doesn't. I've gone on several week long trips for work and vacations and not done it, and I'm fine. Like I said, I do it because I like the way it makes me feel. Nothing else. If I don't have it, oh well. It's just something extra to enjoy. Just so you know, I'm not going to respond again. This is getting extremely redundant, and I'm annoyed.

by **rehpyc** » Thu Apr 04, 2013 1:45 am

sex.. drugs.. alcohol.. gaming.. pointless arguing on the internet

really, who gives two fucks what someone else does with their life or enjoys doing when they aren't working and contributing to society? as long as they aren't a burden to others, who should care or judge?

by **ward** » Wed Apr 03, 2013 7:04 pm

milo wrote:The only thing that I shoot up is MY BARZ LOL THAT GUN GOES STRAIGHT UP

I think you were born the year that vid came out <SICKBURN>

by **milo** » Wed Apr 03, 2013 5:22 pm

The only thing that I shoot up is MY BARZ LOL THAT GUN GOES STRAIGHT UP

by **kirk** » Wed Apr 03, 2013 4:34 pm

Gorillabc wrote:Yes I did. Nothing happens.

Then why do it?! You at least have a temptation to do heroin. That is UNDENIABLE. If you didn't, then there would be zero purpose to doing it. Unless you just spontaneously say, "despite having complete apathy to doing this potentially dangerous and addicting substance, I am still going to stick an IV in my arm and completely alter my cognitive state...but I don't really care to...but I'm still going to...SHUT UP!"

So, no, something happens. You may see it as benign or not worth describing, but there is ALWAYS an antecedent to any behavior. So, what is yours? Simply saying, "I would like to shoot up heroin right now" might be it. But there is something.

That was me answering the question what happens if I stop in my first response to you asking it. So yes, I did fucking answer it. I've answered it probably 10 times now, yet you still say I haven't. Learn to fucking read.

That response implies that I was looking for physical symptoms with my question, and so naturally I presume your answer is in response to what you assumed my question was. But that's NOT what my question was. Logic is fun. So is grammar.

Is it so crazy of a concept that nothing would happen if I stopped? I am not physically addicted, I can go days without it and not have withdrawls. It does not effect me in any way financially, the small amount of money (compared to what I make) has no effect on my financial security whatsoever. Also, it has no negative effects on me living my life. I do it at night OCCASIONALLY. Usually when I'm about to play video games or watch a movie or something.

I'm not talking about physical addiction nor physical withdrawal. You keep saying nothing would change, but that is inherently false. Fucking causality, dude, SOMETHING would change and I am wondering what it is. The fact that you say "nothing" makes me know you're full of shit or just not capable of assessing this beyond the most superficial level.

"Nothing would change if I stop doing this potentially harmful and addictive substance which I inject into myself ~3x per week, but fuck it, why stop?!" - that is the most illogical thing I have ever heard in my fucking life. So, are you lying or are you irrational? Pick one, because there is no other explanation.

by **Gorillabc** » Wed Apr 03, 2013 12:52 pm

alex kirk wrote:
You did not answer my question of what happens if you don't shoot up.

Yes I did. Nothing happens.

Gorillabc wrote: Nothing? - Nice try on the "sly" attempt at trying to find out if I'm physically addicted.

That was me answering the question what happens if I stop in my first response to you asking it. So yes, I did fucking answer it. I've answered it probably 10 times now, yet you still say I haven't. Learn to fucking read.

alex kirk wrote: You made it clear there's nothing physical, but what about psychological (which is more of what I was wondering in the first place)? Obviously something keeps you doing it 3x per week. So what happens if you just stopped doing it altogether? That's what I'm curious to know.

Once again, nothing. I answered this question in my reply to the post you first asked it in, go read it since you apparently missed it. I'm tired of answering it.

alex kirk wrote:I still can't wrap my mind around the whole "nothing would change" - then why do it? Why waste money? Why not find something else to do that is cheaper, less of a threat, not addictive, etc.? Makes ZERO sense. You're either lying or hyper irrational, so take your pick.

Is it so crazy of a concept that nothing would happen if I stopped? I am not physically addicted, I can go days without it and not have withdrawls. It does not effect me in any way financially, the small amount of money (compared to what I make) has no effect on my financial security whatsoever. Also, it has no negative effects on me living my life. I do it at night OCCASIONALLY. Usually when I'm about to play video games or watch a movie or something.

by **tenks** » Wed Apr 03, 2013 10:36 am

stealthlol wrote:This thread is very amusing. Would read again. Thank you for coming back and keeping things spicy, Alex. Nobody ignores logic better then when they're arguing with you.

ha this, couldnt have put it any better.

by **stealthlol** » Wed Apr 03, 2013 10:31 am

This thread is very amusing. Would read again. Thank you for coming back and keeping things spicy, Alex. Nobody ignores logic better then when they're arguing with you.

by **crawtona** » Wed Apr 03, 2013 8:59 am

Miller` wrote:
Jb_ wrote:drugs are bad

Agreed. So is cheating.

by **Miller`** » Wed Apr 03, 2013 7:54 am

Jb_ wrote:drugs are bad

Agreed. So is cheating.

by **CraftyDus** » Wed Apr 03, 2013 7:34 am

"Responsible Drug Use" is totally a thing. Attempts at maintaining a healthy habit require strict adherence to a few basic priniples according to the study I found here;

http://www.duncan-associates.com/Is-Rec ... Normal.pdf

"Duncan and Gold suggested that responsible drug use involves responsibility in three areas: situational responsibilities, health responsibilities, and safety-related responsibilities. Among situational responsibilities they included concerns over the possible situations in which drugs might be used legally. This includes the avoidance of hazardous situations; not using when alone; nor using due to coercion or when the use of drugs itself is the sole reason for use. Health responsibilities include: avoidance of excessive doses or hazardous combinations of drugs; awareness of possible health consequences of drug use; and not using a drug recreationally during periods of excessive stress. Safety-related responsibilities include: using the smallest dose necessary to achieve the desired effects; using only in relaxed settings with supportive companions; avoiding the use of drugs by injection; and not using drugs while performing complex tasks or those where the drug might impair one's ability to function safely" -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Responsible_drug_use

Knowing what I do about the human condition, I lean toward the camp that believes addiction is going to be inevitable in most attempts to remain a "healthy user" for the duration of a heroin habit. I would allow for the exception. Everyone's different. You are unique and special, just like everyone else.

So what about recovering from the addiction phase for the people who's use interupts a healthy lifestyle?

This goes exactly how you'd guess it would. Some recover.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11343531

"A seminal study of heroin recovery and mortality
Between 1962 and 1964, the California Civil Addict Program (CAP) sampled 581 male heroin addicts ages 18-45. CAP was a mandatory drug treatment program for heroin-dependent criminal offenders.

Thirty-three years later, 242 surviving members of the sample were interviewed and tested. (For more information about the study, see Hser YI, Hoffman V, Grella CE, Anglin MD: A 33-year follow-up of narcotics addicts.) Just over half, 55.8 percent, tested negative for heroin use. About twenty percent (20.7) tested positive, and 10.5 percent refused to provide a urine sample. Fourteen percent were incarcerated and not tested. Among those that had died, the most common cause of death, at 27 percent, was accidental poisoning or drug overdose, 45 percent of which was heroin-related.

In all, 47 percent of the surviving members of the sample were, at the time of the final assessment, classified as in recovery, which was defined as five years of abstinence from heroin (or other opioids)." -

http://www.altamirarecovery.com/heroin- ... tatistics/

As abhorrent as my gut reaction is to opioids and their use, I reserve summary judgement from users I know.
The people I love who struggle with this sort of thing aren't shitbags by virtue of it. It's not a problem until it is. But then you're fucked.

by **kirk** » Wed Apr 03, 2013 6:37 am

Gorillabc wrote:Yes I got pissed off that you were asking questions. The problem is you weren't just curiously asking questions, you obviously had an agenda in mind, as you've been playing it out for 3 pages now. That's why I got pissed off, because you came into a "who does what drugs thread" and started trying to tell me that what I'm doing is wrong. What did you expect after you read the OP?

I don't understand what you want me to elaborate about? I have explained everything multiple times, maybe you're just missing it. Here, I'll say it again. I do heroin because I like to do heroin, not because my life sucks or there's something missing from it, and my life wouldn't change at all if I stopped. I do it very infrequently, not even daily. I have explained everything in detail (amounts etc.) and answered every stupid question you've asked. I don't really understand what else you want from me.

I'm getting hostile because you're an annoying mother fucker. You keep asking the same questions over and over after I've answered them several times.

You are just grasping at straws now. Agenda? My agenda was to have a discussion, not rid the world of fucking drugs. You seriously sound insecure over this. Further, I never said what you are doing is wrong; I said it can still be problematic and threatening. Please, let's not get into the business of straw man.

You did not answer my question of what happens if you don't shoot up. You made it clear there's nothing physical, but what about psychological (which is more of what I was wondering in the first place)? Obviously something keeps you doing it 3x per week. So what happens if you just stopped doing it altogether? That's what I'm curious to know.

I still can't wrap my mind around the whole "nothing would change" - then why do it? Why waste money? Why not find something else to do that is cheaper, less of a threat, not addictive, etc.? Makes ZERO sense. You're either lying or hyper irrational, so take your pick.

by **carpenter** » Wed Apr 03, 2013 2:27 am

greetz wrote:

Leave your high school social clubs out of this Frank.

by **greetz** » Tue Apr 02, 2013 10:50 pm

by **Swiss** » Tue Apr 02, 2013 9:55 pm

wait.....wat?

by **Gorillabc** » Tue Apr 02, 2013 9:54 pm

This one's for you Alex!

by **Jakimo** » Tue Apr 02, 2013 9:49 pm

by **Gorillabc** » Tue Apr 02, 2013 9:39 pm

Jakimo wrote:I dont get why theres so much arguing about how addictive drugs are on online forums. The thread was started for other purposes was it not? go to http://www.erowid.org

Any satisfying lifestyle can be dangerous, but most of all the lifestyle of substance "abuse"
I have crohn's and celiacs disease so ive been blessed with a license to be marijuana in all shapes and forms.
When I work at 8am, I wake up at 6am just to have enough time to get that sativa in my body so my metabolism starts.
But yea, I smoke all the time, great body resetter. I notice ppl who dont take time to relax get older faster.

Recently as one gets older they also not only discover alcohol, but they discover all the amazing things it can do for you and all the terrible things. <--- my worst addiction, cannot wait to get it under control, wont be soon, but im going awol this summer...

Cocaine is another mother fucker. Its all over montreal, in large quantities and for some reason, its the best in a long time. Keep that one under control as well. Specially if you have the habit of turning it into cocaethylene. <--- (thats my coon)

Some ppl get high from working out, others get that same dopamine level hunting, coffee, fragging, sexing, smoking tobacco, buying more stocks, making tons of money while poor ppl suffer, could be anything.

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the ... more-drugs

My choice is substance abuse. Living in the forest for years, we cultivated amazing shrooms, got some great acid, grew some great outdoor and indoor, and fished some huge salmon. Everyday I need my weed, little bit of alcohol, but yes now and then my spiritualness builds up and I need a good trip in order to function properly.

1 candle, 1 drug, 1 pillow, 1 song every now then, if controlled, can be an amazing spiritual experience. Reality is boring for people who already have everything they need in life...

Call me crazy, or a bitch, or a ginger or a drug addict, but dont call me no troll. (in this thread)

bless

Do you realize that what you are doing is bad and that you are going to die, and soon?!

by **Jakimo** » Tue Apr 02, 2013 9:37 pm

I dont get why theres so much arguing about how addictive drugs are on online forums. The thread was started for other purposes was it not? go to www.erowid.org

Any satisfying lifestyle can be dangerous, but most of all the lifestyle of substance "abuse"
I have crohn's and celiacs disease so ive been blessed with a license to be marijuana in all shapes and forms.
When I work at 8am, I wake up at 6am just to have enough time to get that sativa in my body so my metabolism starts.
But yea, I smoke all the time, great body resetter. I notice ppl who dont take time to relax get older faster.

Recently as one gets older they also not only discover alcohol, but they discover all the amazing things it can do for you and all the terrible things. <--- my worst addiction, cannot wait to get it under control, wont be soon, but im going awol this summer...

Cocaine is another mother fucker. Its all over montreal, in large quantities and for some reason, its the best in a long time. Keep that one under control as well. Specially if you have the habit of turning it into cocaethylene. <--- (thats my coon)

Some ppl get high from working out, others get that same dopamine level hunting, coffee, fragging, sexing, smoking tobacco, buying more stocks, making tons of money while poor ppl suffer, could be anything.

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the ... more-drugs

My choice is substance abuse. Living in the forest for years, we cultivated amazing shrooms, got some great acid, grew some great outdoor and indoor, and fished some huge salmon. Everyday I need my weed, little bit of alcohol, but yes now and then my spiritualness builds up and I need a good trip in order to function properly.

1 candle, 1 drug, 1 pillow, 1 song every now then, if controlled, can be an amazing spiritual experience. Reality is boring for people who already have everything they need in life...

Call me crazy, or a bitch, or a ginger or a drug addict, but dont call me no troll. (in this thread)

bless

by **Gorillabc** » Tue Apr 02, 2013 9:05 pm

Yes I got pissed off that you were asking questions. The problem is you weren't just curiously asking questions, you obviously had an agenda in mind, as you've been playing it out for 3 pages now. That's why I got pissed off, because you came into a "who does what drugs thread" and started trying to tell me that what I'm doing is wrong. What did you expect after you read the OP?

I don't understand what you want me to elaborate about? I have explained everything multiple times, maybe you're just missing it. Here, I'll say it again. I do heroin because I like to do heroin, not because my life sucks or there's something missing from it, and my life wouldn't change at all if I stopped. I do it very infrequently, not even daily. I have explained everything in detail (amounts etc.) and answered every stupid question you've asked. I don't really understand what else you want from me.

I'm getting hostile because you're an annoying mother fucker. You keep asking the same questions over and over after I've answered them several times.

by **kirk** » Tue Apr 02, 2013 9:00 pm

Gorillabc wrote:You should read my edited post.

And yes, I got pissed when you started asking all kinds of questions. You came off as a douchey do-gooder who was trying to show me the error of my ways, which you still are. I honestly don't see why it matters to you at all, and I'm really tired of having to explain myself over and over when you are failing to grasp the simplest of concepts.

I will say it again, just so you understand. My life would not change a single bit (negative or positive) if I didn't use.

And what the fuck are you talking about "trying to challenge my world views"? This has nothing to do with that.

I only come off as a douchey do-gooder because you decided to lash out rather than being the slightest bit cordial. Asking questions pisses you off? Sounds like you have the issues which need resolving here; not me.

It doesn't matter to me. You have not EXPLAINED anything. You have stated things at surface value and that's as far as it went; there was no elaborating which is what led me to asking questions in the first place. But, that's also when you shut down the possibility of a conversation because my attempts to get you to elaborate were met with hostility.

by **Gorillabc** » Tue Apr 02, 2013 8:37 pm

You should read my edited post.

And yes, I got pissed when you started asking all kinds of questions. You came off as a douchey do-gooder who was trying to show me the error of my ways, which you still are. I honestly don't see why it matters to you at all, and I'm really tired of having to explain myself over and over when you are failing to grasp the simplest of concepts.

I will say it again, just so you understand. My life would not change a single bit (negative or positive) if I didn't use.

And what the fuck are you talking about "trying to challenge my world views"? This has nothing to do with that.

by **kirk** » Tue Apr 02, 2013 8:25 pm

Gorillabc wrote:I didn't read most of the replies because the first one made me angry and I don't really want to read other peoples' arguments. Alex, I know this is a hard concept to grasp, so I'm going to make it really simple. Yes, I was serious when I said my life could not get any better. But how can I say that when I'm doing a small bit of heroin on occasion?! Oh I don't know, maybe because my life would not be different in any way whatsoever if I didn't do it? I do it because I like the way it makes me feel. I do it for the same reason most people play dod, or drink/smoke/masturbate. I am in no danger of living in a ditch, so please, take your anti-drug talk somewhere else. I don't care. You're an idiot.

The funny thing is I'm not even anti-drug; I'm down to legalize pretty much everything.

Interestingly when I really initiated a discussion, I don't think I was being remotely rude. I was asking questions about your use after you advertised it on an internet forum. Unfortunately you exploded and started accusing me of being sly (da fuqq?) for asking said questions. Seeing how unwilling you are to have an actual discussion and possibly challenge your worldviews (the sign of ignorance and the antithesis of progress), I guess there's not much point in giving much of a response.

If your life would not be any different then why the fuck do you do it, though? That makes zero sense. You make it sound like you're completely apathetic to it yet you still spend money doing it (I imagine a decent amount of money if you are using high quality stuff 2-3x per week). The whole, "nothing would be different" is utter bullshit. If you cut out doing a hard drug which you currently use habitually, you're saying nothing would change? That's inherently impossible.

by **Gorillabc** » Tue Apr 02, 2013 8:15 pm

Edit: I went back and read everything so I could make a more informed reply.

Alex, the point you're missing in all of what I've said is this. I do not use heroin (or any other drug) because I'm not satisfied with my life, or because there's something missing or whatever other pseudo-therapist shit you said. I do it because I like the way it makes me feel, plain and simple. Yes, my life really couldn't be any better than it is right now (aside from a lottery win perhaps). "How is that possible when you're doing heroin?" you may ask. Because my life would not change one iota if I didn't do it. So please, stop trying to act like you're a psychologist or have your LCDC, and drop it. You have no idea what you're talking about.

by **Jb_** » Tue Apr 02, 2013 7:20 pm

drugs are bad

by **Jb_** » Tue Apr 02, 2013 4:16 pm

Depends on the situation, I got hooked on oxycontin because I was prescribed it after shoulder repair. I was so young at the time I had never been addicted to anything so all I knew was hey if I eat a couple extra these bad boys or better yet snort it (this was a year into it) I can stay all warm and cozy. I wasn't escaping my life because I was depresed or anything, I just didn't realize or have enough education on the matter to really understand what was going on. I didn't understand why I would go to work sweating in cold sweats and my whole body aching, I seriously thought I caught aids from one of the many hookers I've slept with(made that up) but when I finally realized what was going on and was introduced to suboxone I was able to wing my way off. I was always very athletic so coming off wasn't as hard for me as it would be for others who are either older or non active. So everyone has there reasons, and yes I agree Kirk, if your using to escape the real world then you really need help. I just know there are diffrent situations for alot of people because at 21 I had no "depression" issues or anything like that. Oh btw I know PLENTY of people who do heroin and to even say you do it recreational is laughable down right impossible. To say you don't have withdrawls from sticking a needle in your arm and sending dopamine straight to your brain via blood stream is just down right stupid. I'm sorry gorrilla but your either full of shit or you have a suboxone script and you just bounce back and fourth. I know plenty of folks who switch from subs to heroin depending on there money situation. Its a sad way to live, ive seen so many people I know from highschool who have already sold there souls to the devil for heroin, crack, ice, you name it. So anways moral of my rant is if your doing heroin, you really need to look in the mirror and be real with yourself. Saying your fiance doesn't know and you only do it at night. Whats gonna happen when she comes up stairs one night and finds you face down in throwup with a syringe in your arm. Its heroin, I dont care where you get it from, you never know the true potentcy and its nothing to fuck with. Thats just my 2 cents.

by **kirk** » Tue Apr 02, 2013 3:25 pm

Polak wrote:It's easy to define misuse, do you think it's possible to "properly" use heroin? Better yet, I would find it more interesting if there was a proper way to actually use the drug recreationally.

Good question, and I'm not sure. Habitual use is the first sign of possibly negative use. And considering heroin is typically used to attain a high and a completely altered frame of mind, that's another flag. Same thing goes for alcohol, realize. Drink 2-3x per week to get drunk is problematic. Drinking 2-3x per week and only having a beer is less questionable. With heroin, there isn't as much of a spectrum because when you use it, you're usually using it to attain a high.

Non-habitual use might fall in the gray area, and could possibly be defended as "proper" so long as precautions are taken. But it also depends on the reasons for use, and what happens when the individual doesn't use. I'm not even talking about physiological withdrawal, but rather psychological withdrawal as well.

by **wintehs** » Tue Apr 02, 2013 3:20 pm

My name is Joseph Blanton... and I'm addicted to big ol' titties

Edit: Lets be honest here, there's no such thing as "too much titties"

by **Polak** » Tue Apr 02, 2013 3:18 pm

It's easy to define misuse, do you think it's possible to "properly" use heroin? Better yet, I would find it more interesting if there was a proper way to actually use the drug recreationally.

by **kirk** » Tue Apr 02, 2013 3:12 pm

Polak wrote:I understand why they are different, what I don't understand is how one gets judged then the other when it comes to misuse.

It doesn't. Misuse of anything in regards to this topic is problematic.

by **Polak** » Tue Apr 02, 2013 3:09 pm

Drugs for physical pain differs from emotional pain. If you want an explanation as to why, I certainly can, but I'm hoping this one is obvious.

I understand why they are different, what I don't understand is how one gets judged then the other when it comes to misuse.

I'm curious as to what purpose the definition of happiness serves here. I think that's something problematic: everyone believes the purpose of life is just to be happy, which is just a huge, brainwashed myth.

I would like to argue that, but I agree with you the purpose of life is MORE than just being happy, but I think happiness is overall the majority "push" I would hope most people have, which involves better ourselves as a race. The life experience is a ride and there are many ways to ride it. Now with what you are saying are you talking about free will when you talk about just being happy? I think there is TED talk about it, I'll link you if you are interested.

by **Airnick15** » Tue Apr 02, 2013 3:01 pm

cassinoroyale wrote:the concept of people having a conflation of ideas g]

Who taught you conflation?

by **kirk** » Tue Apr 02, 2013 2:20 pm

Polak wrote:We play DOD right? It's a pointless game right? Yet we invested so many hours into it's enjoyment but it's a poor addiction. We didn't study a lot because we played games and also wasted pointless hours. Anything can be twisted to be good or bad if you really want to be a dick. And once you compare alcohol you can't say any other drug is better or worse. "Everything in moderation" they say and I believe there are people who need to be on drugs to better then selves, whether it someone who suffer from terrible back pains to someone with a terrible mental disability, to someone who is so strung out that a little heroin might seriously help them (I doubt it the possibility is there).

Again, depends on what purpose DoD serves, but you're only reinforcing my point. And yes, arguably anything CAN be taken to an extreme and be considered bad if used inappropriately, whether it's video games or drugs. Look at biggie. That kids needs to get away from the internet and video games in a mean way.

Drugs for physical pain differs from emotional pain. If you want an explanation as to why, I certainly can, but I'm hoping this one is obvious.

Overall I agree with you Kirk, drugs are bad. But I do believe there are people out there who are mentally capable of using drugs (Paul Coon is probably not one of them) and being fully happy, I ask you to define happiness. I'm sure for you it's way different that it is for Paul Coon (I spell out his full name because I love it).

I don't think drugs are inherently bad, though. That's the thing. Context is everything, and within a certain context, I'm sure substance use CAN be perfectly fine. But there are far more contexts where drug use is a rather negative thing.

I'm curious as to what purpose the definition of happiness serves here. I think that's something problematic: everyone believes the purpose of life is just to be happy, which is just a huge, brainwashed myth. That's what leads to people doing stupid shit and glorifying idiots like the morons of Jersey Shore.

I'd also like to quote Hitchens on his out look on alcohol.

"Alcohol makes other people less tedious, and food less bland, and can help provide what the Greeks called entheos, or the slight buzz of inspiration when reading or writing. The only worthwhile miracle in the New Testament—the transmutation of water into wine during the wedding at Cana—is a tribute to the persistence of Hellenism in an otherwise austere Judaea. The same applies to the seder at Passover, which is obviously modeled on the Platonic symposium: questions are asked (especially of the young) while wine is circulated. No better form of sodality has ever been devised: at Oxford one was positively expected to take wine during tutorials. The tongue must be untied. It's not a coincidence that Omar Khayyam, rebuking and ridiculing the stone-faced Iranian mullahs of his time, pointed to the value of the grape as a mockery of their joyless and sterile regime. Visiting today's Iran, I was delighted to find that citizens made a point of defying the clerical ban on booze, keeping it in their homes for visitors even if they didn't particularly take to it themselves, and bootlegging it with great brio and ingenuity. These small revolutions affirm the human"

Again, depends on context. This quote without some sort of context kind of means nothing, because surely Hitchens is not saying that alcohol ingestion irrespective of use, amount, frequency = good.

by **Polak** » Tue Apr 02, 2013 2:01 pm

alex kirk wrote:
Polak wrote:I don't see a difference between someone having a few drinks at night, smoking weed, or shooting up heroine.
There is a difference between an addiction and being dependent on something.

I judge people by how they are doing in life, I know people who smoke, drink, or do blow every day and are very successful. I've seen plenty of people fall of the deep end.
There is however more of a risk to tip over when you dance with the stronger drugs.

I usually have a glass or two of scotch a night when I read a book, watch tv or playing some dod.

It's your life and your body, no one else should be in control of it.
What matters most is the purpose it serves and how it's done. Habitual use of any substance which completely alters your mental capacity is not a completely safe or "okay" act. There are negative implications. Anyone who relies on substances in some fashion is kidding themselves when they say, "things could not be better." And when I say "rely" I am NOT talking strictly about physical dependence.

Brb life cannot be better, but for some reason I have this compulsion to shoot heroin 2-3x per week. Replace heroin with any substance you like and it can be equally problematic. Depending on the nature of the use and what purpose it serves.

How the fuck can you sit here and say life could not be better yet you cannot get equal enjoyment out of life if you are not completely warping your cognitive capacity 2-3x per week or more? What a distorted view, and a remarkably low bar for what makes for a great life.

We play DOD right? It's a pointless game right? Yet we invested so many hours into it's enjoyment but it's a poor addiction. We didn't study a lot because we played games and also wasted pointless hours. Anything can be twisted to be good or bad if you really want to be a dick. And once you compare alcohol you can't say any other drug is better or worse. "Everything in moderation" they say and I believe there are people who need to be on drugs to better then selves, whether it someone who suffer from terrible back pains to someone with a terrible mental disability, to someone who is so strung out that a little heroin might seriously help them (I doubt it the possibility is there).

Overall I agree with you Kirk, drugs are bad. But I do believe there are people out there who are mentally capable of using drugs (Paul Coon is probably not one of them) and being fully happy, I ask you to define happiness. I'm sure for you it's way different that it is for Paul Coon (I spell out his full name because I love it).

I'd also like to quote Hitchens on his out look on alcohol.

"Alcohol makes other people less tedious, and food less bland, and can help provide what the Greeks called entheos, or the slight buzz of inspiration when reading or writing. The only worthwhile miracle in the New Testament—the transmutation of water into wine during the wedding at Cana—is a tribute to the persistence of Hellenism in an otherwise austere Judaea. The same applies to the seder at Passover, which is obviously modeled on the Platonic symposium: questions are asked (especially of the young) while wine is circulated. No better form of sodality has ever been devised: at Oxford one was positively expected to take wine during tutorials. The tongue must be untied. It's not a coincidence that Omar Khayyam, rebuking and ridiculing the stone-faced Iranian mullahs of his time, pointed to the value of the grape as a mockery of their joyless and sterile regime. Visiting today's Iran, I was delighted to find that citizens made a point of defying the clerical ban on booze, keeping it in their homes for visitors even if they didn't particularly take to it themselves, and bootlegging it with great brio and ingenuity. These small revolutions affirm the human"

by **knockout** » Tue Apr 02, 2013 1:55 pm

by **kirk** » Tue Apr 02, 2013 1:42 pm

Polak wrote:I don't see a difference between someone having a few drinks at night, smoking weed, or shooting up heroine.
There is a difference between an addiction and being dependent on something.

I judge people by how they are doing in life, I know people who smoke, drink, or do blow every day and are very successful. I've seen plenty of people fall of the deep end.
There is however more of a risk to tip over when you dance with the stronger drugs.

I usually have a glass or two of scotch a night when I read a book, watch tv or playing some dod.

It's your life and your body, no one else should be in control of it.

What matters most is the purpose it serves and how it's done. Habitual use of any substance which completely alters your mental capacity is not a completely safe or "okay" act. There are negative implications. Anyone who relies on substances in some fashion is kidding themselves when they say, "things could not be better." And when I say "rely" I am NOT talking strictly about physical dependence.

Brb life cannot be better, but for some reason I have this compulsion to shoot heroin 2-3x per week. Replace heroin with any substance you like and it can be equally problematic. Depending on the nature of the use and what purpose it serves.

How the fuck can you sit here and say life could not be better yet you cannot get equal enjoyment out of life if you are not completely warping your cognitive capacity 2-3x per week or more? What a distorted view, and a remarkably low bar for what makes for a great life.

by **Polak** » Tue Apr 02, 2013 1:10 pm

I don't see a difference between someone having a few drinks at night, smoking weed, or shooting up heroine.
There is a difference between an addiction and being dependent on something.

I judge people by how they are doing in life, I know people who smoke, drink, or do blow every day and are very successful. I've seen plenty of people fall of the deep end.
There is however more of a risk to tip over when you dance with the stronger drugs.

I usually have a glass or two of scotch a night when I read a book, watch tv or playing some dod.

It's your life and your body, no one else should be in control of it.

by **cassinoroyale** » Tue Apr 02, 2013 7:32 am

Reading some of your rethorics makes me feel somewhat dumb and smart at the same time. In fact, what I find amusing in the vast field that is people opinion about a given subject is that no matter what this subject it is, there will be persons defending their point of views with either well grounded arguments or just in blind reckless fiercy way, almost always forgetting to ask themselves if it's something good for them or for them people around them. Subjectively, the concept of people having a conflation of ideas all together about something is just a goddamn utopy. I'm really surprised we are all enduring that long living in such world.

tl;dr

Post a reply

Expand view Topic review: Above the Influence DoD v1