1911 Beta

by **rehpyc** » Tue May 21, 2013 11:19 pm

only played the map like twice, but any reason why there's a place for the sniper to jump down without taking damage as allies but not as axis? if we're going to say it's to keep it like merderet, then why can allies still access the bridge from both sides while the axis only have one side?

the heavy route seemed pretty useless for just the heavies after they'd kill the opposing heavies, but a rifle pushing with them could do quite a bit of damage

by **sevEN** » Tue May 21, 2013 10:57 pm

i liked the heavy route, besides the fact that (as many have stated) it has no real influence on the map. if you kill both heavies as axis, i feel like there is nothing you can do except push into table and camp in there. i cant break mid, i cant really make it out of that doorway on the top, and peeking w/ stg underpass gets owned/naded. and on allies, there are a million gay ass spots to gay it up at when you push past that flag.

but i do think it's one of the better custom maps made for league play in the past couple years. keep working on it

i wish i had more input on what i think would help fix it.

by **scorch-** » Tue May 21, 2013 10:00 pm

Just swap the side of the arch that the half-door covers by axis first and move the entryway from there to table room and the hall next to it towards the axis first to cut down the angle that bridge can wreck heavies from while also giving allied heavies a better shot of doing damage at the first. Then take the box off the ramp at allied first and put a half-wall at the top of the ramp.

You don't have to connect hotel and bridge to let the heavies have an influence on the map. You just need to make it easier for people to do damage at the enemy first when they're controlling the hotelside. The problem is that right now it doesn't make sense to send 3 people to the hotel because if you win a fight against the other team, you can't do any damage, but if you win a fight at the bridge you can influence the whole map. Once you win the middle part of hotel, it should get easier to frag and harder for the other team to take back that area.

by **e-machine** » Tue May 21, 2013 9:53 pm

by **lerfooled** » Tue May 21, 2013 6:27 pm

many of the issues with the design of the map have been contemplated by the group of individuals who have worked on the map. this is really an early version of the map which was fairly rushed and completed in a week or two. so to summarize a list of problems with the map...

-tables are bad
-give the heavies a more important role in the map.
not sure whether this means connecting the water house to the apartments and connecting axis exit closer to allies first, connector to bridge in the middle of apartments, or w/e.
-various angled brushes causing shots to fall into a black hole(ss would be nice)

as for the spawns... the maps are generally put together like large pre made lego blocks sooo... it's part that i don't want to do the extra work to create a new area and part whether or not those changes improve the map(ie lengthening distance from spawn to bridge).

i'm not the best designer of maps and no forethought goes into the overall design when i make a map... i like to create something a little unique or unconventional in terms of play style and if it works... great! if not, we are only aiming for better then some of the lower end maps in the rotation.

by **stile** » Tue May 21, 2013 3:21 pm

The heavy route only exists on that map so the 2 extra people have a place to go.

I'd rather that whole section get deleted and have a 6v6 on bridge.

by **scorch-** » Tue May 21, 2013 3:14 pm

Echoing what some other people have said, the heavy side of that map is totally useless. If you lose bridge as axis, you're a sitting duck if you try to get into the heavy area. If you win the heavy side as axis, you have like 2 tiny ways to attack the first. If you win the heavy side as allies, you have two tiny ways to attack the first. Basically, you win a flag with the heavies and then you kind of sit and wait and see if the other team's heavies are going to leave their first flag, but if you win bridge you have these great angles to long pick the other team's one route from spawn with rifles.

If you're going to give the rifles so much influence over the entire map, you need to give the heavies some way to influence the outcome. It didn't feel like winning or losing the heavy side of the map really made much difference, while I totally felt the influence of winning/losing bridge on my ability to do anything on the heavy side.

by **Theworst** » Tue May 21, 2013 2:16 pm

nunz wrote:either way its better than merderet and sturm. even with the bugs.

I don't know, I enjoy Merderet a lot more than this map.

by **nunz** » Tue May 21, 2013 2:15 pm

either way its better than merderet and sturm. even with the bugs.

by **Theworst** » Tue May 21, 2013 2:04 pm

knockout wrote:-As for chemille, all flags are single caps, which allows the pace to be picked up and flanks to be more possible/meaningful. Another important thing to note, that I haven't heard anyone else mention is that the spawns should be moved back. It seems that killing the bridge team then capping bridge immediately, you can still get naded by a guy respawning because of the small amount of time it takes to get back to the flag from their spawn.

This.

by **knockout** » Tue May 21, 2013 1:49 pm

bewton wrote:I don't know I feel like having 2 separate routes adds a little variety to our map choices. If you are dominating the heavy side sure you can't break middle but you can get to the first and do enough damage to allow your team to capture the bridge, as tox demonstrated several times this week. Chemille has two separate routes and it's a blast.

Just my personal opinion, maybe the majority of the community does want remakes of anzio, harrington and lennon

Although I do feel having variety in maps is great (I enjoy the contrast of donner, chemille, and anzio as opposed to harrington and lennon), I feel there are issues with this particular map that are fundamentally flawed for competitive play. I have voiced most of my concerns in my last post, but here are some things to note on your point:

-I really don't agree that you can do damage to allow your team to capture bridge by winning your route as allies. You either peek uphill at a ramp that the other team's kars can see from their spawn ramp, or you peek a tiny doorway with an unfavorable angle. Axis side you have a little more to work with.

-As for chemille, all flags are single caps, which allows the pace to be picked up and flanks to be more possible/meaningful. Another important thing to note, that I haven't heard anyone else mention is that the spawns should be moved back. It seems that killing the bridge team then capping bridge immediately, you can still get naded by a guy respawning because of the small amount of time it takes to get back to the flag from their spawn.

-Think of maps that have been played for years at a competitive level and where the spawns are placed in regards to flags: chemille, anzio, donner, even custom maps including harrington and railroad. I've brought this issue up to a couple top level players that have been around for a while and most have agreed, while some disagreed. Either way I think it should be something to test if someone is willing to work on this map and try to make it more suitable for competitive play. As it is now, I really don't think it should be played in a match again.

by **k4b00m** » Tue May 21, 2013 1:48 pm

bewton wrote:I don't know I feel like having 2 separate routes adds a little variety to our map choices. If you are dominating the heavy side sure you can't break middle but you can get to the first and do enough damage to allow your team to capture the bridge, as tox demonstrated several times this week. Chemille has two separate routes and it's a blast.

Just my personal opinion, maybe the majority of the community does want remakes of anzio, harrington and lennon

I agree. My only concern(s) are issues with spots on that map that are easily abused, like crouching behind certain objects and not being hit at all. A few simple fixes on the heavy route could make it so much more enjoyable, no need for a huge overhaul.
My biggest gripe is the ramp and doorway leading to axis first though, you can't do anything as a heavy once you push up on allies. You're literally trapped in table room like a rat because nades are flying everywhere and you have a severe disadvantage with angles.

by **bewton** » Tue May 21, 2013 1:37 pm

I don't know I feel like having 2 separate routes adds a little variety to our map choices. If you are dominating the heavy side sure you can't break middle but you can get to the first and do enough damage to allow your team to capture the bridge, as tox demonstrated several times this week. Chemille has two separate routes and it's a blast.

Just my personal opinion, maybe the majority of the community does want remakes of anzio, harrington and lennon

by **nunz** » Tue May 21, 2013 12:48 pm

could u open up that area? and allow the guy to jump down to docks or even the ledge on the side. it allows third rifles or heavys to move back and forth and potentially create a more important route for the third in holding the apps. just an idea, ive never made a map so i dont know the limitations.

by **CraftyDus** » Tue May 21, 2013 12:15 pm

There totally was a double door to a room in hall with a jumpable window to bridge side 2 versions ago that received the opposite criticism.

by **Theworst** » Tue May 21, 2013 12:10 pm

knockout wrote:
nomis wrote:
bewton wrote:Chris bridge side is perfect imo, can't say anything about underpass though. Keep the map the same and let people get more used to it...if it keeps getting changed, people will get fed up.
There's a ton of shitty hitboxes on the map though. People already pointed out the jump window thing, that is really bad, but even some of the sides of doorways have bad hitboxes and absorb bullets. I actually like the map, but that stuff needs to be fixed.
The tables on the bridge are also made of some element not found on the periodic table. Really stupidly exploitable. I also think the flipped table on the heavy route is the same way.

The biggest problem with the map is that the two routes aren't connected. It totally ruins the flow of the game, as the caps aren't even worth equal points with the two routes unconnected (bridge=2, hotel=1). The best maps that play out evenly are those that have connected routes, and have some thought put into the layout. This map was CLEARLY made with two routes in mind: a heavy route, and a rifle route. Identifying routes is a decent first step in making a map, but shouldn't be the only step.

Pretty much this. There needs to be some way for the heavies to be able to break middle and for rifles to be able to rotate to the heavy route and help the heavies. My suggestion would be to have a route from water house that leads into heavy apartments and a route from upper docks to the heavy route. This allows heavies to actually be able stop a potential bridge cap and for rifles to get to the heavy route. Also, there needs to be a drop from axis loft into U hall so axis have another spot they can peek from since allies have the right hall to peek from and axis have nothing on that side.

by **knockout** » Tue May 21, 2013 10:09 am

nomis wrote:
bewton wrote:Chris bridge side is perfect imo, can't say anything about underpass though. Keep the map the same and let people get more used to it...if it keeps getting changed, people will get fed up.
There's a ton of shitty hitboxes on the map though. People already pointed out the jump window thing, that is really bad, but even some of the sides of doorways have bad hitboxes and absorb bullets. I actually like the map, but that stuff needs to be fixed.

The tables on the bridge are also made of some element not found on the periodic table. Really stupidly exploitable. I also think the flipped table on the heavy route is the same way.

The biggest problem with the map is that the two routes aren't connected. It totally ruins the flow of the game, as the caps aren't even worth equal points with the two routes unconnected (bridge=2, hotel=1). The best maps that play out evenly are those that have connected routes, and have some thought put into the layout. This map was CLEARLY made with two routes in mind: a heavy route, and a rifle route. Identifying routes is a decent first step in making a map, but shouldn't be the only step.

by **nomis** » Mon May 20, 2013 3:36 pm

bewton wrote:Chris bridge side is perfect imo, can't say anything about underpass though. Keep the map the same and let people get more used to it...if it keeps getting changed, people will get fed up.

There's a ton of shitty hitboxes on the map though. People already pointed out the jump window thing, that is really bad, but even some of the sides of doorways have bad hitboxes and absorb bullets. I actually like the map, but that stuff needs to be fixed.

by **cassinoroyale** » Mon May 20, 2013 1:23 pm

bewton wrote:Chris bridge side is perfect imo, can't say anything about underpass though. Keep the map the same and let people get more used to it...if it keeps getting changed, people will get fed up.

by **nunz** » Mon May 20, 2013 1:22 pm

bewton wrote:Chris bridge side is perfect imo, can't say anything about underpass though. Keep the map the same and let people get more used to it...if it keeps getting changed, people will get fed up.

i agree the layout of the map works well.

by **bewton** » Mon May 20, 2013 1:16 pm

Chris bridge side is perfect imo, can't say anything about underpass though. Keep the map the same and let people get more used to it...if it keeps getting changed, people will get fed up.

by **nunz** » Mon May 20, 2013 12:42 pm

GG NB, Yaso is an annoying SOB in that loft!

by **Mino** » Mon May 20, 2013 11:45 am

defiance wrote:RIP NoGo?

Please advise.

No way. I'll see who can play and whatnot and try to add people if need be.

If you can, activate the team please.

by **Joshinator** » Mon May 20, 2013 7:50 am

Joey wrote:GG SC, really enjoyed it. Gutted to lose by 16 points! I think every single one of us chucked ourselves at that last flag when we played Allies..intense is not even close to describe that match!

Anamaria wrote:Best match so far, thanks SC, also thanks Sizzz for putting us back on track with the matrix cap, right after they capped us great teamwork buddy

We took forever to cap you as allies and in the end if was too late

TK you are one bad @#!*% sniper - absolutely owned me lol xx

Good game guys and congrats on your win

GG! It was a blast! Playoffs will be lots of fun.

by **Red---** » Mon May 20, 2013 6:34 am

Joey wrote:GG SC, really enjoyed it. Gutted to lose by 16 points! I think every single one of us chucked ourselves at that last flag when we played Allies..intense is not even close to describe that match!

should of been in vent with us. it felt like allies spawn was bridge and tables room lol.

very intense, loved every minute. gg toggle on, can't wait till playoffs

by **Joey** » Mon May 20, 2013 4:09 am

GG SC, really enjoyed it. Gutted to lose by 16 points! I think every single one of us chucked ourselves at that last flag when we played Allies..intense is not even close to describe that match!

by **carpenter** » Mon May 20, 2013 3:58 am

GG kliq. if i wasn't such an awful heavy it would've been more fun.

by **senCe** » Mon May 20, 2013 3:38 am

gg dgf! Intense match!!

by **Anamaria** » Mon May 20, 2013 2:19 am

Best match so far, thanks SC, also thanks Sizzz for putting us back on track with the matrix cap, right after they capped us

great teamwork buddy

We took forever to cap you as allies and in the end if was too late

TK you are one bad ass sniper - absolutely owned me lol xx

Good game guys and congrats on your win

by **knockout** » Sun May 19, 2013 9:45 pm

BoxeR wrote:
knockout wrote: Illuminati < 3h - weak sniper/rifles set them up for their first loss on a map where a sniper needs to carry

knockout wrote: Isn't devin your sniper? If so, I suggest having poizoned sit in a corner next to your sniper and picking it up when he dies. Or just cut out the middle man and TK him every spawn.
knockout I would like to thank you for your negativity which boosted my morale for this match. LOL

Looks like poizoned listened by getting a million kills. Either way, I'm so damn proud of you, Devin!

by **k4b00m** » Sun May 19, 2013 8:24 pm

GG rise against. That map is so stressful ;( It needs A LOT of fixes. Hopefully ace and/or lerf are willing to put more time into that map because it was fun scrimming it during the week. I'm willing to talk with you guys to present my complaints!

by **d u c k s** » Sun May 19, 2013 7:51 pm

CraftyDus wrote:gg ToggleOn

one of the most engaging matches I've had.

ty for the negs, ducks

Spoiler: show
ya cooooooooze!

GG

by **CraftyDus** » Sun May 19, 2013 7:47 pm

gg ToggleOn

one of the most engaging matches I've had.

ty for the negs, ducks

Spoiler: show

by **nomis** » Sun May 19, 2013 7:44 pm

3 point loss

gg though, was intense.

by **Crono** » Sun May 19, 2013 7:26 pm

gg i3 even though i couldn't hit anything.

by **bewton** » Sun May 19, 2013 7:24 pm

Gg thunder pretty intense match. Nice 5k tox

by **d u c k s** » Sun May 19, 2013 7:04 pm

deek! wrote:Amazing match Toggle!

That was fun!

Yeah man, GG..It was intense. 16 points

by **deek!** » Sun May 19, 2013 6:57 pm

Amazing match Toggle!

That was fun!

by **defiance** » Sun May 19, 2013 6:40 pm

RIP NoGo?

Please advise.

by **BoxeR** » Sun May 19, 2013 6:37 pm

knockout wrote: Illuminati < 3h - weak sniper/rifles set them up for their first loss on a map where a sniper needs to carry

knockout wrote: Isn't devin your sniper? If so, I suggest having poizoned sit in a corner next to your sniper and picking it up when he dies. Or just cut out the middle man and TK him every spawn.

knockout I would like to thank you for your negativity which boosted my morale for this match. LOL

by **SnoopS** » Sun May 19, 2013 6:03 pm

Invite
gskill > angryface
iwa > THUNDER
dgf > rise against

Main
Illuminati > 3h
virginz > goodfellas
deadbolt > Renamed
92DT > NoGo
1080p > BYE

IM
vVv GLHF oxeye
Frenchies > TMNT - have fun!
KLIQ > i3 - KliQ is really good, can't wait to play them.
</3 < Nasty Boys - Avenger and Travis

Open
Toggle On < SC - Madcat not starting hurts this team.
Z < 475th have fun!
p2o > d7 ban hopper
Massare > PIKA have fun!
GSR > HK -have fun!

by **Red---** » Sun May 19, 2013 7:27 am

d u c k s wrote:
defiance wrote:
Open
Toggle On Vs SC

gl. should be fun.

by **stile** » Sat May 18, 2013 4:20 pm

k4b00m wrote:stile. I feel bad for you. Please come home soon.

milo and poizoned keep me moderately sane..

by **k4b00m** » Sat May 18, 2013 1:43 pm

stile. I feel bad for you. Please come home soon.

by **d u c k s** » Sat May 18, 2013 7:43 am

defiance wrote:
Open
Toggle On Vs SC

GL HF

by **akiro** » Sat May 18, 2013 6:55 am

BoxeR wrote:I'm actually furious crying.

by **BoxeR** » Fri May 17, 2013 7:27 pm

knockout wrote:
BoxeR wrote:
knockout wrote: Isn't devin your sniper? If so, I suggest having poizoned sit in a corner next to your sniper and picking it up when he dies. Or just cut out the middle man and TK him every spawn.
Hmm.. I'm assuming since you joined gskiLL they told you to talk shit to me in an attempt to hurt my feelings. Dude.. I seriously could give less fucks if I'm not good at this 12 year old game that doesn't do anything for me. They only reason I play this game is cause my friends play it. I don't even know you are, but you act like me and you have a long feud.
In one response you gave me the "i don't care" defense, the "i don't know who you are" defense, and the "you have a long feud" (??????) defense.

xzpndHtdl9A

I'm actually furious.

by **stile** » Fri May 17, 2013 7:24 pm

Gorillabc wrote:Devin, you're a giant retard. And terrible.

Says the guy who is only good enough for TPG IM? LOL.

by **knockout** » Fri May 17, 2013 7:09 pm

BoxeR wrote:
knockout wrote:
stile wrote: poizoned will not be pleased
Isn't devin your sniper? If so, I suggest having poizoned sit in a corner next to your sniper and picking it up when he dies. Or just cut out the middle man and TK him every spawn.
Hmm.. I'm assuming since you joined gskiLL they told you to talk shit to me in an attempt to hurt my feelings. Dude.. I seriously could give less fucks if I'm not good at this 12 year old game that doesn't do anything for me. They only reason I play this game is cause my friends play it. I don't even know you are, but you act like me and you have a long feud.

In one response you gave me the "i don't care" defense, the "i don't know who you are" defense, and the "you have a long feud" (??????) defense.

xzpndHtdl9A

by **BoxeR** » Fri May 17, 2013 6:58 pm

Gorillabc wrote:Devin, you're a giant retard. And terrible.

LOL I haven't said a word to you since last season and now you decide to talk shit to me. Please do us all a favor and od you drug addicted hillbilly.

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