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by **kirk** » Mon Jul 01, 2013 2:45 pm

scorch- wrote:Thanks for taking the time. For context, I do have 6 quarters of psych/soc undergrad, but that was about a decade ago now. I'll see if I can pick it up from internet sources. Don't worry about the book, if I did want to read it I'd just go ahead and buy it because I hate reading through another reader's highlights.

Totally. I love this stuff so if you need clarification, do ask. It's probably one of the most important concepts in psychology, though it's a shame more people don't recognize it.

Also, be wary of internet sources. This is an incredibly complex concept and the internet hasn't been too helpful thus far. You can search the ACBS site (http://contextualscience.org/) for more resources, but I don't know how thorough they are. I am a member and can see if there are restricted sources should you be more interested.

by **scorch-** » Mon Jul 01, 2013 2:42 pm

Thanks for taking the time. For context, I do have 6 quarters of psych/soc undergrad, but that was about a decade ago now. I'll see if I can pick it up from internet sources. Don't worry about the book, if I did want to read it I'd just go ahead and buy it because I hate reading through another reader's highlights.

by **kirk** » Mon Jul 01, 2013 2:19 pm

scorch- wrote:Can you recommend any good non-textbook resources on RFT? I've really enjoyed reading Gladwell's books (slightly different field, but good examples imo) and could get into the way the information and theory was presented in the context of a history, but I have a really hard time reading through dense work and staying interested.

That's the best book I've come across so far. It is pretty dense, but it'll be tough to come across anything more "introductory" than that. It tries to lay some foundation regarding radical behaviorism as that is what RFT is rooted in; it continues where Skinner left off. The author is a really nice guy, too. I am on a listserv with him through the Association for Contextual Behavioral Science, and I've spoken with him a few times regarding therapy stuff. If you don't feel like spending the money for that book, I'd be happy to loan you my copy (which is highlighted to death) though I realize the awkwardness of giving an internet stranger your home or work address ;]

This is also a pretty decent page trying to explain RFT in layman's terms, though it is incomplete. That is, what it says is quite accurate, but the implications of relational framing go beyond the author's presentation: http://ironshrink.com/2007/12/what-is-r ... -part-one/ (note: page 1 is kind of awkward at first, but page 2 will clarify a good amount).

I also have a PowerPoint on this from a presentation I gave, but it could be kind of tough to make sense of it because it is not thorough in itself. Threw the main topics on there, but then I filled in the rest with the oral presentation itself. Attaching to this post regardless just in case it provides some use.

by **scorch-** » Mon Jul 01, 2013 2:05 pm

kirk wrote:Regarding the bold/italicize/underlined portion - if you want to have your hair blown back go read up on relation frame theory (RFT). It's a form of learning which stems from other forms of conditioning (classical, operant, etc.) and it explains why humans are significantly more complex in our cognitive processes. It's astounding, and it explains why avoiding "bad" feelings and prioritizing "good" ones is not a good route, and is in fact paradoxical in attaining happiness. It's something no other animal can do; it is one thing that makes us remarkably unique.

Can you recommend any good non-textbook resources on RFT? I've really enjoyed reading Gladwell's books (slightly different field, but good examples imo) and could get into the way the information and theory was presented in the context of a history, but I have a really hard time reading through dense work and staying interested.

by **kirk** » Mon Jul 01, 2013 1:27 pm

crawtona wrote:Holy shit, I actually agree with one Alex "James T." Kirk.

Finally being certain that you are right about something is a profound experience indeed ;]

by **crawtona** » Mon Jul 01, 2013 12:40 pm

kirk wrote:We've all been duped into believing that the purpose of life is emotional happiness, and further we've been told that money will help us get there. It's a remarkable lie and it's probably a huge factor as to why every mental illness is rising in prominence and why major depression will be the second leading cause of disability worldwide, second only to HIV/AIDS. Think about that for a moment...

And now psychiatrists can prescribe individuals antidepressants for things like grief when a family member dies, according to the newly revised definition of "depression" as per the DSM-5. We officially prescribe medication for "normal" or "healthy" sadness because we have been conditioned to fear such experiences. It's gross.

Holy shit, I actually agree with one Alex "James T." Kirk.

by **kirk** » Mon Jul 01, 2013 10:11 am

Polak wrote:So what do you want to talk about? How anti-depressants are bullshit? Which aren't they easily prescribed for what you called out, normal sadness. The purpose of life is emotional happiness, and banging butts brah. A beer in my left hand and titty in another. It doesn't matter how much money you have, you will always find a situation where it could be better or worse. I think Hernandez popped this guy because he might of connected him to another murder and was playing with the idea. That makes it understandably. STOP SNITCHING BITCHES>

They are VERY easily prescribed, I don't know what you are talking about. The vast majority of psychiatrists in private practice have little to no oversight until a complaint comes in or there's some worry of malpractice, which is pretty much never (relatively speaking). The problem with the entirety of the medical community is that most med schools do not require formal scientific training. None. Zero experience in dissecting a study and learning how to actually make sense of a publication. Instead they'll just read the abstract and results and discussion without zero understanding of methodology and making sense of the empirical foundation which a study relies on.

People who believe the purpose of life is emotional happiness are the ones who have mid-life crises. Hence why they spend money to re-attain it.

scorch- wrote:But why was he involved in a double murder in the first place? How does an individual reach the point where they conclude that their best course of action is to try to end someone's life?

I think a simple way of re-stating Alex's essay is that you should realize humans are very complex animals. While it may be easy to see why a dog reacts in a certain way to an outside stimulus, it is much more difficult to see why a human reacts in a certain way to an outside stimulus because a lot more "processing" goes on. Humans don't seem to react nearly as predictably as dogs because we have the capability to internalize and prioritize events into a framework that is difficult to discern from the outside without having knowledge of all prior events. However, we are still reacting and dealing with outside stimuli given our inherited ability to do so and the framework we have built up through a lifetime of reacting to stimuli. If you had access to all those prior stimulus/response events (often parents will see this with their children), you would see that humans react much more predictably than it might appear at first glance.

Somehow, this young man got to a state of believing murder was the best answer. Alex doesn't want to say he's a bad man, because that doesn't help anyone, instead ask what could have brought this person to the point where his internal framework told him the reaction that was best for his survival was to kill. That might be useful.

This. We can sit here and make moral judgments all we want, but it does nothing to create change. It's not very pragmatic if our intent is to stop these from happening. If someone had a brain tumor which caused them to do bad things, would we blame the person upon the removal of that tumor? I would not, personally. What they did would be horrible, and they should be seeking medical/psychological services to make sure it does not happen in the future, but I would not call that person a bad man given the variables at play.

This case, as tough as it is to swallow, is not significantly different. Though instead of a brain tumor you might have things like a tough upbringing, low SES, lack of parental care/discipline, poor or lack of proper education (hint: simply attending class does not = proper education), etc. I don't know the variables, just tossing some out there that are pretty common among murders. When you realize that free will is a myth, then you see that these variables are not things we simply abandon or ignore; they shape who we are. They are "psychological brain tumors," if you will. Disregard moral judgments and just look at the mechanisms. They are undoubtedly there.

Regarding the bold/italicize/underlined portion - if you want to have your hair blown back go read up on relation frame theory (RFT). It's a form of learning which stems from other forms of conditioning (classical, operant, etc.) and it explains why humans are significantly more complex in our cognitive processes. It's astounding, and it explains why avoiding "bad" feelings and prioritizing "good" ones is not a good route, and is in fact paradoxical in attaining happiness. It's something no other animal can do; it is one thing that makes us remarkably unique.

Polak wrote:He lost control of the situation and his logical thought process only drew him to a crazy aggressive solution. Shoot that N

This is a simplified version, but sure. He believed that his aggressive solution was the only, or best, solution to whatever distress was caused by the situation. Shooting him, however, is NOT what our response ought to be. The death penalty is not an appropriate response. Rehabilitation is the only pragmatic response.

by **Polak** » Mon Jul 01, 2013 9:45 am

scorch- wrote:But why was he involved in a double murder in the first place? How does an individual reach the point where they conclude that their best course of action is to try to end someone's life?

I think a simple way of re-stating Alex's essay is that you should realize humans are very complex animals. While it may be easy to see why a dog reacts in a certain way to an outside stimulus, it is much more difficult to see why a human reacts in a certain way to an outside stimulus because a lot more "processing" goes on. Humans don't seem to react nearly as predictably as dogs because we have the capability to internalize and prioritize events into a framework that is difficult to discern from the outside without having knowledge of all prior events. However, we are still reacting and dealing with outside stimuli given our inherited ability to do so and the framework we have built up through a lifetime of reacting to stimuli. If you had access to all those prior stimulus/response events (often parents will see this with their children), you would see that humans react much more predictably than it might appear at first glance.

Somehow, this young man got to a state of believing murder was the best answer. Alex doesn't want to say he's a bad man, because that doesn't help anyone, instead ask what could have brought this person to the point where his internal framework told him the reaction that was best for his survival was to kill. That might be useful.

He lost control of the situation and his logical thought process only drew him to a crazy aggressive solution. Shoot that N

by **scorch-** » Mon Jul 01, 2013 8:25 am

But why was he involved in a double murder in the first place? How does an individual reach the point where they conclude that their best course of action is to try to end someone's life?

I think a simple way of re-stating Alex's essay is that you should realize humans are very complex animals. While it may be easy to see why a dog reacts in a certain way to an outside stimulus, it is much more difficult to see why a human reacts in a certain way to an outside stimulus because a lot more "processing" goes on. Humans don't seem to react nearly as predictably as dogs because we have the capability to internalize and prioritize events into a framework that is difficult to discern from the outside without having knowledge of all prior events. However, we are still reacting and dealing with outside stimuli given our inherited ability to do so and the framework we have built up through a lifetime of reacting to stimuli. If you had access to all those prior stimulus/response events (often parents will see this with their children), you would see that humans react much more predictably than it might appear at first glance.

Somehow, this young man got to a state of believing murder was the best answer. Alex doesn't want to say he's a bad man, because that doesn't help anyone, instead ask what could have brought this person to the point where his internal framework told him the reaction that was best for his survival was to kill. That might be useful.

by **Polak** » Mon Jul 01, 2013 7:42 am

kirk wrote:
akiro wrote:I lost my dad at 11, 6 months after he was diagnose with leukemia. I didnt turn to drugs and gangs, and then be involved in multiple violent issues and then murder someone. There is a difference between lashing out, and continuing to invove yourself with trash and violence. The whole bullshit i had a hard life because my dad died would make sense if he didnt get to go to college for free, fuck up and then still make it to the nfl and get a 40 mil contract. He wanted to play football ad make money, he got what he wanted so what the fuck is he so unhappy about? Immature dumb prick, matt light who never has said shit about any nfl player said he didnt like anything hernandez stood for.

Everyone is different, i get that, but lets not make excuses for very single person who does some horrible shit. Being depressed will never be an excuse for an execution style murder, he could have afforded to see a fucking doctor. On top of that now his fiancee and kid are alone, and i'm sure his mother is destroyed.
Essay time, bitches! (Just because I know I troll these forums for funsies, please read this post as one with no attempt to be disrespectful!)

I don't make excuses for people who do horrible things, but I do acknowledge the circumstances which lead individuals to do such things. That is not to justify their actions from a "moral" standpoint but rather it is an attempt to look at the underlying mechanisms which lead people to break certain moral codes (i.e., cause and effect). Everyone in this situation is worthy of sympathy: one individual lost his life, another suffered severely enough to believe that murder is a viable option to alleviate his distress, and the countless family/friends harmed by this. Just because an individual committed an act that we deem immoral does not mean we discount his suffering or unhappiness; that is very far from pragmatic or helpful. I think this can be illustrated in European rehab-based justice systems vs. our punishment-based justice system. The former acknowledges certain uncontrollable variables (or lack of variables) which increase an individual's potential to do terrible things, while the latter does not take such things into account, which is a shame. The rates of relapse, poverty, reincarceration, use of social services, etc. can illustrate which is more utilitarian.

We can look at an individual's life and think, "they had no reason to be unhappy because of this and that and that as well," but from a pragmatic standpoint it does nothing and is actually quite erroneous. People suffer amidst every circumstance and condition in the world; it is universally pervasive and culturally resilient. Discounting suffering, even when individuals do heinous things (which I would argue stem heavily from uncontrollable factors), allows us to continue to be ignorant of the conditions which cause such heinous events in the first place.

Basically if we could bring some Tralfamadorians in here, they could peer into time/space and probably give you millions of events, people, moments, memories, etc. which cause us to do the things we do, good or bad. Sympathy, rather than immediate blame, would be the default response to this situation should we be able to see that additional dimension.

Hopefully this makes some sense...but really many might be thinking...

ao_ wrote:
kirk wrote: Brb buying an extra car to fend off the unhappiness.
Sounds like my aunt who lives in Grosse Point.... I just saw her for the first time in a few years and she was so bombed out on anti-depressants and anxiety pills that she was unable to look at me straight. She is a classic example of someone who believed money would be the key to happiness and is miserable.
Antidepressants are the most disgusting scam in the history of medication and science. The number of studies which show zero statistical significance in the efficacy of antidepressants is remarkably larger than the studies which do show significance, and of those which show significance it can be shown that over 80% of the effects of antidepressants stem solely from placebo effects.

We've all been duped into believing that the purpose of life is emotional happiness, and further we've been told that money will help us get there. It's a remarkable lie and it's probably a huge factor as to why every mental illness is rising in prominence and why major depression will be the second leading cause of disability worldwide, second only to HIV/AIDS. Think about that for a moment...

And now psychiatrists can prescribe individuals antidepressants for things like grief when a family member dies, according to the newly revised definition of "depression" as per the DSM-5. We officially prescribe medication for "normal" or "healthy" sadness because we have been conditioned to fear such experiences. It's gross.

So what do you want to talk about? How anti-depressants are bullshit? Which aren't they easily prescribed for what you called out, normal sadness. The purpose of life is emotional happiness, and banging butts brah. A beer in my left hand and titty in another. It doesn't matter how much money you have, you will always find a situation where it could be better or worse. I think Hernandez popped this guy because he might of connected him to another murder and was playing with the idea. That makes it understandably. STOP SNITCHING BITCHES>

by **tenks** » Sun Jun 30, 2013 8:35 pm

Miller` wrote:
I think the parts Joey is referring to, and I haven't seen either, is that Hernandez made him get out of the car, shot him in the head and then more in the chest.

It was on sportscenter, the guys doing the coverage said it on air. Sorry I don't have an article to show you two proof, but I also don't have anything to gain by making that up. They said multiple times on an early ESPN report, he shot him in the chest after he shot him the head, after he got out of the car. Whether he made him get out of the car, I don't know. They also said they have tape him walking around his living room or whatever, with gun in hand saying "you can't trust nobody" before Lloyd was murdered. Which is also where the reporter said now there is a motive and in addition to the obstruction of justice, he was fucked.

by **Eco** » Sun Jun 30, 2013 8:19 pm

by **Miller`** » Fri Jun 28, 2013 4:16 am

tenks wrote:
sevEN wrote:
tenks wrote:
Espn, google...I typed it right off the source. internets are fun~

read the article. your version is very exaggerated and pure speculation. which is what i thought when i read it. thanks for the confirmation

Yea, I'm pretty sure you just read a random article that I wasn't quoting and jumped to conclusions cause it didn't match. Good work!

I think the parts Joey is referring to, and I haven't seen either, is that Hernandez made him get out of the car, shot him in the head and then more in the chest. In fact, the police have not called him the shooter - just that he has been responsible for a murder - because they do not have the gun as of yet. They did release information yesterday that Lloyd was shot in the arms in a defensive stance and then a few more in the back as he crawled away.

Either way, it was an apparent egregious attack and being part of a previous murder is going to show his gang ties and be a major black eye on the Patriots and NFL.

by **shoguNtw** » Fri Jun 28, 2013 3:19 am

Crank wrote:
shoguNtw wrote:Patriots TE aaron hernandez charged with first degree murder, crazy story. thoughts?

annnnnd now a possible suspect to two other murders last july.

this is crazy, vehicled involved in a drive by shooting killing two was registered to him

by **CharlieGiteau** » Thu Jun 27, 2013 7:38 pm

toxinatoR wrote:
rehpyc wrote:shoulda hired a killer~

He's going the Chris Benoit route. ROID RAGE!!!

by **wintehs** » Thu Jun 27, 2013 7:18 pm

toxinatoR wrote:
rehpyc wrote:shoulda hired a killer~

by **toxinatoR** » Thu Jun 27, 2013 5:25 pm

rehpyc wrote:shoulda hired a killer~

by **toxinatoR** » Thu Jun 27, 2013 5:22 pm

kirk wrote:Because money doesn't somehow negate suffering. As much as we've all been duped into believing it does.

by **Crank** » Thu Jun 27, 2013 3:46 pm

shoguNtw wrote:Patriots TE aaron hernandez charged with first degree murder, crazy story. thoughts?

annnnnd now a possible suspect to two other murders last july.

by **Jb_** » Thu Jun 27, 2013 3:26 pm

kirk wrote:
Jb_ wrote:Jesus Kirk you know how to bomb a thread with nonsense. If we all sat around and worried about all that dumb shit like you then we wouldn't enjoy living. Works both ways hombre.
I know how to bomb a thread, but it's certainly not nonsense! Understand first, respond second.

Interestingly people who devote themselves fully to concepts I described, in arguably radical ways, pretty much never worry and find fulfillment in everyday tasks you and I would probably find mundane. And as far as personal experience goes, it has helped to remove much of my worry or frustration or anger in others. I find it's easier to let go of things I might have previously found disagreeable, and subsequently it's much easier to enjoy living. When you understand the source of immorality as we define it stems from shared suffering, and that control and free will are largely illusions, then empathy and sympathy become more natural responses. I promise you this does not remove enjoyment from living, but rather it enhances it greatly.

Seeking insight into human nature and how we operate is not dumb, in my opinion. Seeking answers into the ways we behave is of utmost importance, and I already made the case for that in regards to the justice systems between various countries. Sitting around thinking about this "dumb shit" is what has led other countries to revamp the way they treat criminals so that justice is less costly, more effective, and does not reinforce a cycle of crime. Sounds like those who ponder these questions have improved society in unfathomable ways.

This is also important when it comes to psychological treatment, of course. That should be self-evident.

by **acetamino** » Thu Jun 27, 2013 2:44 pm

The next oj case right here!

by **Crono** » Thu Jun 27, 2013 2:31 pm

Sad to see this guy screw up his life. Always thought he had potential to be better then gronk. But we will never know.

by **kirk** » Thu Jun 27, 2013 2:29 pm

Jb_ wrote:Jesus Kirk you know how to bomb a thread with nonsense. If we all sat around and worried about all that dumb shit like you then we wouldn't enjoy living. Works both ways hombre.

I know how to bomb a thread, but it's certainly not nonsense! Understand first, respond second.

Interestingly people who devote themselves fully to concepts I described, in arguably radical ways, pretty much never worry and find fulfillment in everyday tasks you and I would probably find mundane. And as far as personal experience goes, it has helped to remove much of my worry or frustration or anger in others. I find it's easier to let go of things I might have previously found disagreeable, and subsequently it's much easier to enjoy living. When you understand the source of immorality as we define it stems from shared suffering, and that control and free will are largely illusions, then empathy and sympathy become more natural responses. I promise you this does not remove enjoyment from living, but rather it enhances it greatly.

Seeking insight into human nature and how we operate is not dumb, in my opinion. Seeking answers into the ways we behave is of utmost importance, and I already made the case for that in regards to the justice systems between various countries. Sitting around thinking about this "dumb shit" is what has led other countries to revamp the way they treat criminals so that justice is less costly, more effective, and does not reinforce a cycle of crime. Sounds like those who ponder these questions have improved society in unfathomable ways.

This is also important when it comes to psychological treatment, of course. That should be self-evident.

by **Jb_** » Thu Jun 27, 2013 2:16 pm

Jesus Kirk you know how to bomb a thread with nonsense. If we all sat around and worried about all that dumb shit like you then we wouldn't enjoy living. Works both ways hombre.

by **tenks** » Thu Jun 27, 2013 2:08 pm

sevEN wrote:
tenks wrote:
sevEN wrote: source? I haven't heard all of those details..

Espn, google...I typed it right off the source. internets are fun~

read the article. your version is very exaggerated and pure speculation. which is what i thought when i read it. thanks for the confirmation

Yea, I'm pretty sure you just read a random article that I wasn't quoting and jumped to conclusions cause it didn't match. Good work!

by **sevEN** » Thu Jun 27, 2013 1:57 pm

tenks wrote:
sevEN wrote:
tenks wrote:5+ bullets in body.

Gun found, security footage of him in his house walking around with gun in his hand, talking about Lloyd (the man he killed) in an angry tone. He planned and orchestrated the whole thing. Picked Lloyd up and waited for him to get out of the car, shot him in the back of the head, and a few more bullets to his chest.

No bail. Getting death penalty most likely. Obstruction of justice + first degree murder + pre-meditated = fucked

Ray Lewis can't do nothing for him now but slap the shit out of him
source? I haven't heard all of those details..

Espn, google...I typed it right off the source. internets are fun~

read the article. your version is very exaggerated and pure speculation. which is what i thought when i read it. thanks for the confirmation

by **d u c k s** » Thu Jun 27, 2013 1:39 pm

by **Todo** » Thu Jun 27, 2013 1:10 pm

ao_ wrote:
kirk wrote:
avenger wrote:pffffffffffffffffftttttt. Shows what you know.
Brb buying an extra car to fend off the unhappiness.
Sounds like my aunt who lives in Grosse Point.... I just saw her for the first time in a few years and she was so bombed out on anti-depressants and anxiety pills that she was unable to look at me straight. She is a classic example of someone who believed money would be the key to happiness and is miserable.

Would you say she looked.......... blank?

by **kirk** » Thu Jun 27, 2013 1:07 pm

akiro wrote:I lost my dad at 11, 6 months after he was diagnose with leukemia. I didnt turn to drugs and gangs, and then be involved in multiple violent issues and then murder someone. There is a difference between lashing out, and continuing to invove yourself with trash and violence. The whole bullshit i had a hard life because my dad died would make sense if he didnt get to go to college for free, fuck up and then still make it to the nfl and get a 40 mil contract. He wanted to play football ad make money, he got what he wanted so what the fuck is he so unhappy about? Immature dumb prick, matt light who never has said shit about any nfl player said he didnt like anything hernandez stood for.

Everyone is different, i get that, but lets not make excuses for very single person who does some horrible shit. Being depressed will never be an excuse for an execution style murder, he could have afforded to see a fucking doctor. On top of that now his fiancee and kid are alone, and i'm sure his mother is destroyed.

Essay time, bitches! (Just because I know I troll these forums for funsies, please read this post as one with no attempt to be disrespectful!)

I don't make excuses for people who do horrible things, but I do acknowledge the circumstances which lead individuals to do such things. That is not to justify their actions from a "moral" standpoint but rather it is an attempt to look at the underlying mechanisms which lead people to break certain moral codes (i.e., cause and effect). Everyone in this situation is worthy of sympathy: one individual lost his life, another suffered severely enough to believe that murder is a viable option to alleviate his distress, and the countless family/friends harmed by this. Just because an individual committed an act that we deem immoral does not mean we discount his suffering or unhappiness; that is very far from pragmatic or helpful. I think this can be illustrated in European rehab-based justice systems vs. our punishment-based justice system. The former acknowledges certain uncontrollable variables (or lack of variables) which increase an individual's potential to do terrible things, while the latter does not take such things into account, which is a shame. The rates of relapse, poverty, reincarceration, use of social services, etc. can illustrate which is more utilitarian.

We can look at an individual's life and think, "they had no reason to be unhappy because of this and that and that as well," but from a pragmatic standpoint it does nothing and is actually quite erroneous. People suffer amidst every circumstance and condition in the world; it is universally pervasive and culturally resilient. Discounting suffering, even when individuals do heinous things (which I would argue stem heavily from uncontrollable factors), allows us to continue to be ignorant of the conditions which cause such heinous events in the first place.

Basically if we could bring some Tralfamadorians in here, they could peer into time/space and probably give you millions of events, people, moments, memories, etc. which cause us to do the things we do, good or bad. Sympathy, rather than immediate blame, would be the default response to this situation should we be able to see that additional dimension.

Hopefully this makes some sense...but really many might be thinking...

ao_ wrote:
kirk wrote:
avenger wrote:pffffffffffffffffftttttt. Shows what you know.
Brb buying an extra car to fend off the unhappiness.
Sounds like my aunt who lives in Grosse Point.... I just saw her for the first time in a few years and she was so bombed out on anti-depressants and anxiety pills that she was unable to look at me straight. She is a classic example of someone who believed money would be the key to happiness and is miserable.

Antidepressants are the most disgusting scam in the history of medication and science. The number of studies which show zero statistical significance in the efficacy of antidepressants is remarkably larger than the studies which do show significance, and of those which show significance it can be shown that over 80% of the effects of antidepressants stem solely from placebo effects.

We've all been duped into believing that the purpose of life is emotional happiness, and further we've been told that money will help us get there. It's a remarkable lie and it's probably a huge factor as to why every mental illness is rising in prominence and why major depression will be the second leading cause of disability worldwide, second only to HIV/AIDS. Think about that for a moment...

And now psychiatrists can prescribe individuals antidepressants for things like grief when a family member dies, according to the newly revised definition of "depression" as per the DSM-5. We officially prescribe medication for "normal" or "healthy" sadness because we have been conditioned to fear such experiences. It's gross.

by **ao_** » Thu Jun 27, 2013 12:57 pm

kirk wrote:
avenger wrote:pffffffffffffffffftttttt. Shows what you know.
Brb buying an extra car to fend off the unhappiness.

Sounds like my aunt who lives in Grosse Point.... I just saw her for the first time in a few years and she was so bombed out on anti-depressants and anxiety pills that she was unable to look at me straight. She is a classic example of someone who believed money would be the key to happiness and is miserable.

by **wintehs** » Thu Jun 27, 2013 12:38 pm

akiro wrote:I lost my dad at 11, 6 months after he was diagnose with leukemia. I didnt turn to drugs and gangs, and then be involved in multiple violent issues and then murder someone. There is a difference between lashing out, and continuing to invove yourself with trash and violence. The whole bullshit i had a hard life because my dad died would make sense if he didnt get to go to college for free, fuck up and then still make it to the nfl and get a 40 mil contract. He wanted to play football ad make money, he got what he wanted so what the fuck is he so unhappy about? Immature dumb prick, matt light who never has said shit about any nfl player said he didnt like anything hernandez stood for.

Everyone is different, i get that, but lets not make excuses for very single person who does some horrible shit. Being depressed will never be an excuse for an execution style murder, he could have afforded to see a fucking doctor. On top of that now his fiancee and kid are alone, and i'm sure his mother is destroyed.

by **rehpyc** » Thu Jun 27, 2013 12:26 pm

shoulda hired a killer~

by **akiro** » Thu Jun 27, 2013 12:11 pm

I lost my dad at 11, 6 months after he was diagnose with leukemia. I didnt turn to drugs and gangs, and then be involved in multiple violent issues and then murder someone. There is a difference between lashing out, and continuing to invove yourself with trash and violence. The whole bullshit i had a hard life because my dad died would make sense if he didnt get to go to college for free, fuck up and then still make it to the nfl and get a 40 mil contract. He wanted to play football ad make money, he got what he wanted so what the fuck is he so unhappy about? Immature dumb prick, matt light who never has said shit about any nfl player said he didnt like anything hernandez stood for.

Everyone is different, i get that, but lets not make excuses for very single person who does some horrible shit. Being depressed will never be an excuse for an execution style murder, he could have afforded to see a fucking doctor. On top of that now his fiancee and kid are alone, and i'm sure his mother is destroyed.

by **kirk** » Thu Jun 27, 2013 11:44 am

avenger wrote:pffffffffffffffffftttttt. Shows what you know.

Brb buying an extra car to fend off the unhappiness.

by **tenks** » Thu Jun 27, 2013 11:36 am

sevEN wrote:
tenks wrote:5+ bullets in body.

Gun found, security footage of him in his house walking around with gun in his hand, talking about Lloyd (the man he killed) in an angry tone. He planned and orchestrated the whole thing. Picked Lloyd up and waited for him to get out of the car, shot him in the back of the head, and a few more bullets to his chest.

No bail. Getting death penalty most likely. Obstruction of justice + first degree murder + pre-meditated = fucked

Ray Lewis can't do nothing for him now but slap the shit out of him
source? I haven't heard all of those details..

Espn, google...I typed it right off the source. internets are fun~

by **avenger** » Thu Jun 27, 2013 8:54 am

kirk wrote:
Jb_ wrote:Does anyone know why he did this? I mean lets see here im a fucking millionaire but I really think I will risk my life and the NFL to murder someone and then do everything exactly WRONG to try and hide it. People forget the ages of some of these guys because of their size and maturity but he was still a young man at 24 he just didn't have enough life experience to properly learn how to murder and dispose of a body. Jeeze its sooo easy I've done it a couple times.
Because money doesn't somehow negate suffering. As much as we've all been duped into believing it does.

pffffffffffffffffftttttt. Shows what you know.

by **kirk** » Thu Jun 27, 2013 8:36 am

Jb_ wrote:Does anyone know why he did this? I mean lets see here im a fucking millionaire but I really think I will risk my life and the NFL to murder someone and then do everything exactly WRONG to try and hide it. People forget the ages of some of these guys because of their size and maturity but he was still a young man at 24 he just didn't have enough life experience to properly learn how to murder and dispose of a body. Jeeze its sooo easy I've done it a couple times.

Because money doesn't somehow negate suffering. As much as we've all been duped into believing it does.

by **akiro** » Thu Jun 27, 2013 7:39 am

Holy shit an escher sighting

by **escher** » Thu Jun 27, 2013 6:38 am

tenks wrote:No bail. Getting death penalty most likely. Obstruction of justice + first degree murder + pre-meditated = fucked

Fucked, yes, but not death penalty. MA declared that unconstitutional like 30 years ago.

by **CharlieGiteau** » Thu Jun 27, 2013 6:27 am

sevEN wrote:
tenks wrote:5+ bullets in body.

Gun found, security footage of him in his house walking around with gun in his hand, talking about Lloyd (the man he killed) in an angry tone. He planned and orchestrated the whole thing. Picked Lloyd up and waited for him to get out of the car, shot him in the back of the head, and a few more bullets to his chest.

No bail. Getting death penalty most likely. Obstruction of justice + first degree murder + pre-meditated = fucked

Ray Lewis can't do nothing for him now but slap the shit out of him
source? I haven't heard all of those details..

I read something very similar off of ESPN.
http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/_/i ... ged-murder

by **sevEN** » Thu Jun 27, 2013 1:02 am

tenks wrote:5+ bullets in body.

Gun found, security footage of him in his house walking around with gun in his hand, talking about Lloyd (the man he killed) in an angry tone. He planned and orchestrated the whole thing. Picked Lloyd up and waited for him to get out of the car, shot him in the back of the head, and a few more bullets to his chest.

No bail. Getting death penalty most likely. Obstruction of justice + first degree murder + pre-meditated = fucked

Ray Lewis can't do nothing for him now but slap the shit out of him

source? I haven't heard all of those details..

by **tenks** » Wed Jun 26, 2013 11:30 pm

Jb_ wrote:Does anyone know why he did this? I mean lets see here im a fucking millionaire but I really think I will risk my life and the NFL to murder someone and then do everything exactly WRONG to try and hide it. People forget the ages of some of these guys because of their size and maturity but he was still a young man at 24 he just didn't have enough life experience to properly learn how to murder and dispose of a body. Jeeze its sooo easy I've done it a couple times.

23

by **knockout** » Wed Jun 26, 2013 7:41 pm

Now who's the deadliest TE in the league?

by **stevehisey_** » Wed Jun 26, 2013 6:14 pm

I hear he is being casted for the The Longest Yard sequel

by **Jb_** » Wed Jun 26, 2013 4:35 pm

Does anyone know why he did this? I mean lets see here im a fucking millionaire but I really think I will risk my life and the NFL to murder someone and then do everything exactly WRONG to try and hide it. People forget the ages of some of these guys because of their size and maturity but he was still a young man at 24 he just didn't have enough life experience to properly learn how to murder and dispose of a body. Jeeze its sooo easy I've done it a couple times.

by **tenks** » Wed Jun 26, 2013 4:08 pm

5+ bullets in body.

Gun found, security footage of him in his house walking around with gun in his hand, talking about Lloyd (the man he killed) in an angry tone. He planned and orchestrated the whole thing. Picked Lloyd up and waited for him to get out of the car, shot him in the back of the head, and a few more bullets to his chest.

No bail. Getting death penalty most likely. Obstruction of justice + first degree murder + pre-meditated = fucked

Ray Lewis can't do nothing for him now but slap the shit out of him

by **Chuck Foo** » Wed Jun 26, 2013 3:38 pm

Tim Tebow now starting at tight end for the Pats.

by **british** » Wed Jun 26, 2013 3:36 pm

I heard he hired a professional cleaning company to clean the house right after the murder happenned.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

o_O

by **ze0n** » Wed Jun 26, 2013 3:33 pm

akiro wrote:He grew up and went to school the town next to me, lot of kids i know went to school with him ( i graduated before he was in school). One of the nurses i work with, hernadez's mother is her daughters school secretary. All anyone around here keeps saying is what a fucking retard and he just threw his life away and that his dad must be rolling in his grave. Maybe ray lewis can talk to him, give him some tips.

Went to college with him and had classes with him. He was a really nice guy outside of the realm of football and it is surprising to see him do something like this. Kind of sad

by **mogers** » Wed Jun 26, 2013 3:22 pm

Sears wrote:
Cage wrote:I believe he's banned cause his posts are no longer there, and thank you whoever did that. Saved us from alot of stupidity.

You really like that gif don't you Eric?

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