1911 Beta

Allies spawn sucks. Heavy route encourages people to camp the flag and not move up (Maybe add a bunker?).

sometimes im not completely sure if its the map that needs tweaking or if its the strat teams are using. the team we played went 3/3 while we went 4/2. I think little things like fixing angles and holes like chris was suggesting might be the best way to at the very least lighten the complaining.

[quote="Joey"]I like both versions of the map, bridge is mostly unchanged which is the route I take and our heavies adapted to the changes on tables side quite well and actually said they liked the preseason version better.

[quote="k4b00m"]
Something I saw during pregame, when you're allies in your loft hallway looking at the alley from the hole in the wall, you can easily see the axis' lower body and they can't see you at all unless they're peeking up close to the wall, seems like a pretty lame angle. I don't know how much of a problem that was for anyone but it seems potentially annoying as fuck.
[/quote]

Yep noticed this too, a little annoying knowing they can see your feet looking out but you cant see the hole while looking down the alley. Nice idea for the sniper to be able to stop someone flanking though![/quote]

Yeah, I think I found that out the hard way during the match. :lol:

I like both versions of the map, bridge is mostly unchanged which is the route I take and our heavies adapted to the changes on tables side quite well and actually said they liked the preseason version better.

[quote="k4b00m"]
Something I saw during pregame, when you're allies in your loft hallway looking at the alley from the hole in the wall, you can easily see the axis' lower body and they can't see you at all unless they're peeking up close to the wall, seems like a pretty lame angle. I don't know how much of a problem that was for anyone but it seems potentially annoying as fuck.
[/quote]

Yep noticed this too, a little annoying knowing they can see your feet looking out but you cant see the hole while looking down the alley. Nice idea for the sniper to be able to stop someone flanking though!

As I play heavy I can only comment the singelcap side.

I liked the old version better than this one. The old version felt smoother. Now there is much more corners and other stuff that makes it easier to hide. For exampel the new entrance to the table-room from axis spawn. After you cap the singel flag, on both sides, there is no reason to push forward. You cant really do any damage in the axis spawn, neither in allied spawn. So if you lack self-respect, its best for the team to just find a good spot to camp on.

The postitive change with this new version is the removal of the double doors from table-room to yard. Thats about it.

What I would like to see is a one way connector from old jumpwindow area to the bridge route. And also staires from underpass to the loft or the penis statue area. This would maybe invite heavies to play less passive.

[i]This post turned out to be long and not very organized, reader beware:[/i]

I had a lot more fun on a65 than b2. I also helped ace with suggestions and was looking at the map at every step so none of this is a surprise to me. That being said, there's just a few things that I want to point out.

That broken door/window thing in hotel is VERY awkward to get out of in a hurry, I still feel it's pointless and doesn't add a lot to the gameplay when you get stuck because you're a fatass in a hurry. Removing that little piece of wall at head level would be an easy fix I think. Does it block any angle? I haven't actually thought of that, just been frustrated with it lol..

I found it very hard to hit a guy standing behind that small box in that "flower alley" as I was calling it. It was a fun place to fight for, but many bullets were wasted on many occasions trying to shoot around that box.

I still hate rubble in hole, that table or whatever it is is so annoying, the dirt is fine, but that table I always get stuck on it at the worst times. Also I never once went in that left alley when you go through hole. That's not really a problem I guess, just something about it, I don't really like it. lol

Something I saw during pregame, when you're allies in your loft hallway looking at the alley from the hole in the wall, you can easily see the axis' lower body and they can't see you at all unless they're peeking up close to the wall, seems like a pretty lame angle. I don't know how much of a problem that was for anyone but it seems potentially annoying as fuck.

Another thing I saw but didn't really get to test out since I never went bridge, both paths from bridge to allies first are practically side by side, I don't know if that was really a problem for anyone but it seems really simple to hold since they're both so close.

Another potentially useless observation, in my match both teams weren't even close to a capout on axis, while each team's allies side got plenty of chances to cap, they capped twice on us as allies and I was at the first A LOT.

Some more random things. I really liked long/mountain/whatever the fuck we're calling it, as allies! The upper entrance that is a cave now instead of a dinky ass door is really awesome. It seems so predictable and easy to watch, but it's amazing how many times you can do a lot of damage with the right peeks and luck. Ramp is still a nightmare though lol :D

Good job so far ace, I know making so many changes to a map sometimes ruins it, because some would rather just stick to a version and get used to it, but I feel the changes being made are for the better!

allied spawn area needs cleaning up imo. i like the look of the spawn area but the way the allies come out of it to defend the 1st flag is shitty imo.

on single cap side its allied sided as bars and it's downhill. especially off initial. there's not much fighting around the flag cap zone, only in table room. tough to push out of it clearly. i like the area for the most part. doesn't seem as though the top area is used much. maybe it was just me...

when pushing as axis on single cap side that room leading to their first flag is wtf. if you decide to push through that right open door its nade central, good luck picking someone off.

bridge area is awesome. very axis sided. tough to peak as an allied rifle/sniper. allied sniper really needs to be on their game in order for the bridge to be taken. not many areas for the allies to push to safely in order for a flag push.

my suggestion: make it a bigger cap zone on the bridge for the allies, its tough to cap already when it's getting naded.

all-in-all. interesting map. small yet very difficult to capout on. in order to push for the one you need extreme teamwork.

gg.

i think its a great map. love horse shoe, love all of bridge. the lofts arnt bad. pushing fruit is super fun, hole in upper loft totally useful and radio with the right left peek. not to mention church is a sick new area that adds some good defense.

one thing thats curious is when I get to loft and snipe from axis, i wonder for like 60 seconds if anyone pushed bridge. but they do eventually show up.


havnt tried heavy side much, but the couple times ended up there were fun as well.

one of my fav maps

one thing that is annoying on heavy side is that u can pick off anyone from the other route. ur primarily forced to camp until ur bridge team caps. i sit in the gayest corner to wait out otherwise if i push i am overly exposed and taken out. the connector replacing that jump window area was a plus though. i never had much issue with the bridge side other than one loft being made of some sort of bullet proof substance.

[quote="zbeec"]rather play avalanche. heavying that map sucks cant do nothing on axis and no way to get to mid from that side of map either[/quote]

this. i like b2 better but with apps connected to bridge some how. either one entrance from the middle of apps to bridgr water or connecting waterhouse into apps and upper docks wih apps

inb4 wall of text

[img]http://31.media.tumblr.com/0fbe0fc79b4c5fe3b7fa456b9366d778/tumblr_mg8o4kFyBM1rsl308o1_500.gif[/img]

[quote="bullgooselooney"]I think the wall at axis one needs to be lowered. Are the allies suppose to be able to jump into the axis loft by themselves?[/quote]
-I have heard about the wall many times and have dropped it a unit. The allies are supposed to be able to get up there with what is suppose to be a little challenge that benefits ppl who have more experience(advantage goes to those who practice). that being said I know its incredibly annoying when an allied player gets up there. I have updated "L" hall to try and give the axis a better chance at picking a player camping up there.
[quote="Hudson`"]One thought: you made a way for the allies to get into the axis loft -- why not create something similar on the other side of the map? My reasoning for this is that it's next to impossible as an axis going bridge to push and really pose any meaningful threat to their first flag. The backalley exit is a nade magnet, and the radio room exit is a wallable deathtrap.This kind of change would probably increase axis chances of capping out.....but holding the bridge is already very axis sided....so i duno if this would destroy any balance that there currently is[/quote]
- I had that thought and the door that is blocked off in the lower room of allies sniper loft would be the connector. I am worried about allowing this entrance because it would give the axis five points of entrance to that area. Having them already have the advantage on bridge and accounting for more "tick" points they would receive I chose to force the axis to be smart about when to make a full push. As bewton stated capping out is hard and it should be timely - based on smart play, not abundance of entrances to a cap area imo. However I will continue to think about this doorway (Im pretty sure you can boost backalley to that new sniper hole if you boost from atop the flowerbed).
[quote="scorch-"]The map is okay. It's reasonably balanced and competitive but lacks the interconnectedness that makes maps like harrington/anzio so intense. It's kind of like... well we won our battle at mountainside, time to camp table room. Should we try to push their first? Welp, guess we can't. It's basically a bigger chemille but even less connected. At least on chemille you have the puddle room/connector/car hall area where winning one side can influence the other and a team can defensively rotate if they lose a route. On halle, if you lose bridge and are winning mountain, you can't really rotate at all, and vice versa. At this point, though, I don't know how you could change that. The routes themselves are reasonably balanced, the map seems reasonably balanced. It just doesn't seem very intense.[/quote]
- I think before your return we tried out villa_b1 with that interconnectedness you and others are looking for. all it received was negative feedback because players were "getting lost" and shooting everyone in the back. Nonetheless I have created a hole in the wall in heavy apartments. Players can shoot through but not jump between routes. we will see how it plays. [quote="Crono"]I prefer the older version. Heavy side is just all over the place. [/quote]
-explain, "all over the place." if you care to. does that mean too many rooms now? too many corners or hiding? the only thing that changed was that lower allied area, Did it get more confusing, increase or slow down speed of play?
[quote="zbeec"]rather play avalanche. heavying that map sucks cant do nothing on axis and no way to get to mid from that side of map either[/quote]
-As akiro, or lowcarb pointed out - there are four flags = no mid. Yes, it is worth more points but that is to influence a 4/2 split. if you are absolutely getting dominated on bridge maybe play more defensively there and start a 3/3 to try and flank. Just curious, was your match the first time you played this version?

rather play avalanche. heavying that map sucks cant do nothing on axis and no way to get to mid from that side of map either

Its almost impossible for an axis heavy to be able to do anything once they push up. That allied spawn area is huge and there are so many places to look when coming from that direction. Also, that wall by axis spawn that they can look over, and allies can only see their helmets needs to be lowered.

Otherwise, i like the way it played. had fun. keep up the good work.

I'm not a fan of the huge church area coming out from Allies heavy side. I like the hole you added for Allied sniper to peek back alley. And what Dan said.

I think its too axis sided as far as they have bridge automatically.. and you can see into the batcave/fruit hallway from water house before the allies even have a chance. I also don't really like the sniper loft situation seems to be one sided in favor of the axis since the wall is much farther back you can crouch shot, while the allies can always be seen it seems. Tougher to wall the snipers now in this version since the walls seem to be stronger could be good or bad whatever...

Also what hudson said about radio and batcave nade death trap and so on... Im not saying its all good or all bad but i think the map could use some more balance somehow. I dont know im not a map maker.

The map also seems to be really straight forward no alternate routes to anything like a connector or tunnel.. makes it seem more plain and boring cause i know where you are lol.

In short, some balance maybe? Also i think a new route of some kind would be productive and fun.

[quote="Crono"]I prefer the older version. Heavy side is just all over the place. Only thing I rlly like is on table side instead of going out doubledoor the door was moved to the left. I say we play emmanuel I actually enjoy that map :p[/quote]
I also like that emmanuel map. I might like this one more, but emmanuel is fun.

I liked the way b2 played much better than the new version. I think Dan summed it up in discussing the lack of connectedness between routes. I know that you have spent a geat deal of time in working on this map, but I think we should decide on a finalized version and stick with that.

[quote="dat xero"]i've enjoyed both iterations of the map we've played thus far. no preference over a65 and b2. never played the original merdilla. both matches i've played on b2 and a65 were really close and intense/exciting matches.[/quote]

#sewertobridge

I prefer the older version. Heavy side is just all over the place. Only thing I rlly like is on table side instead of going out doubledoor the door was moved to the left. I say we play emmanuel I actually enjoy that map :p

Go back to villa_b2.

The map is okay. It's reasonably balanced and competitive but lacks the interconnectedness that makes maps like harrington/anzio so intense. It's kind of like... well we won our battle at mountainside, time to camp table room. Should we try to push their first? Welp, guess we can't. It's basically a bigger chemille but even less connected. At least on chemille you have the puddle room/connector/car hall area where winning one side can influence the other and a team can defensively rotate if they lose a route. On halle, if you lose bridge and are winning mountain, you can't really rotate at all, and vice versa. At this point, though, I don't know how you could change that. The routes themselves are reasonably balanced, the map seems reasonably balanced. It just doesn't seem very intense.

was much more fun mging bridge than it was heavying that shitty apartment side.

I like it.

One thought: you made a way for the allies to get into the axis loft -- why not create something similar on the other side of the map?

My reasoning for this is that it's next to impossible as an axis going bridge to push and really pose any meaningful threat to their first flag. The backalley exit is a nade magnet, and the radio room exit is a wallable deathtrap.

This kind of change would probably increase axis chances of capping out.....but holding the bridge is already very axis sided....so i duno if this would destroy any balance that there currently is

2cents.

I liked both versions as well. Last season played bridge, this season played underpass. Both routes on the new version seemed great. Still pretty difficult to capout...but it's just one of those maps, you'll have to earn it. Hope we keep playing it.

I like the new version better. I think the wall at axis one needs to be lowered. Are the allies suppose to be able to jump into the axis loft by themselves?

I like it.

i've enjoyed both iterations of the map we've played thus far. no preference over a65 and b2. never played the original merdilla. both matches i've played on b2 and a65 were really close and intense/exciting matches.

Honestly liked the other one 100x better. The only thing I thought that needed changed on the previous halle was the invisible wall in the window on the heavy route near allies spawn. I feel like now it's a giant cluster fuck when I play it. I do however like the boardwalk leading to table room that was added instead of the double door.

Go