1911 Beta

by **seanality** » Fri Jul 22, 2011 10:23 am

scorch- wrote:so where do donuts fit in to your diet?

they start at DnD and end in the toilet after a few hours or days depending on how much Mc's I had.

ass hole. lol

by **scorch-** » Fri Jul 22, 2011 8:06 am

so where do donuts fit in to your diet?

by **seanality** » Fri Jul 22, 2011 5:24 am

lowcarb wrote:
rehpyc wrote:I work out so that one day I can look as good in sleeveless shirts as ryanemo does

i already do.

by good you gays mean gay right?

-the jealous people.

by **lowcarb** » Thu Jul 21, 2011 9:56 pm

rehpyc wrote:I work out so that one day I can look as good in sleeveless shirts as ryanemo does

i already do.

by **rehpyc** » Thu Jul 21, 2011 5:44 pm

I work out so that one day I can look as good in sleeveless shirts as ryanemo does

by **lowcarb** » Thu Jul 21, 2011 12:22 am

that everything is made from

by **Sears** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 2:06 pm

lowcarb wrote:Honestly, I just want to see Eric go in the gym shirtless.

In your dreams...

by **kirk** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 2:04 pm

seanality wrote:I hear you bro. I am pretty sure that anyone who is going to the gym to make themselves bigger and more muscular is insecure, so I am not offended.

I guess the reason for the statement was to show the point where I realized I was getting close to my physical goal; look like a beast.

Not everyone at the gym seeking body recomposition is insecure...

by **lowcarb** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 1:20 pm

Honestly, I just want to see Eric go in the gym shirtless.

by **seanality** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 1:15 pm

I hear you bro. I am pretty sure that anyone who is going to the gym to make themselves bigger and more muscular is insecure, so I am not offended.

I guess the reason for the statement was to show the point where I realized I was getting close to my physical goal; look like a beast.

by **kirk** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 1:07 pm

Sears wrote:Maybe I don't know the backstory here. Did you use to be a fat, lazy, super-geek or something? Because this whole diatribe displays some rather remarkable and deep-rooted existential insecurity.

In my opinion as an athlete (and one with an unfair genetic advantage, sorry bros), the means in how you train are always more important than the ends (results).

What I mean by that, is that you should be training in a way that is fostered by, and for the sake of challenging yourself physically and mentally. Not for the sake of fulfilling some vapid hole in your existential psyche.

I moonlight as a personal trainer, and most of the time I advocate my clients (most of whom are women, and working professionals) search for a system that works for them. But, in this case I would want to train with you in a more one-on-one situation as to help you to develop a healthier mindset towards your personal goals.

As a man, as an athlete. When you step into the gym, all of that superficial shit; like what you look like in your sleeveless tank, or how many bros come up to you to tell you how jacked you are, should instantly disappear. The physical and mental challenge of what you are trying to attempt should be all that lies in front of you.

If you aren't approaching your training in this way, you are limiting your capability to make yourself a bigger, faster, stronger athlete. You are chasing an empty vessel. When you hit a road block, and that superficial reinforcement stops ("how your muscles look when they are warmed up", adjusting your reps/weight for "pump", etc). You'll find yourself stuck in a plateau with no means to get out of it.

I get the notion that your intentions probably have been good, and that your goal has been to improve yourself, but from the outside looking in, this whole story just makes you come off as a massively insecure tool/douchebag.

*Disclaimer: Not trolling you, never had any e-opinion of you one way or the other, just some observations/concerns.

I 100% agree with you, Eric.

However, a large portion of the bodybuilding population (as you're probably well-aware) doesn't give a shit about the mental or physical stress. They just want results. There are so, so many guys who are 6'0" 160 pounds who start cycling steroids. Why? They don't give a fuck about the mental challenge and the sort of growth process. They just want the strength and mass now.

I'm willing to bet most people into bodybuilding don't share your sentiments, unfortunately. I do, but I don't lift weights to get hyooge. I lift just for general conditioning, as I'm far more concerned with how fast I am on the bike. Most people don't care about the struggle in the weight room: they care about the attention, vanity, etc.

(Not saying this is you, Sean!)

by **Sears** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 12:56 pm

seanality wrote:That pretty much sums up my routines.

As lame as this might sound when I lift I focus on 2 things;
1. How my muscles look once warmed-up- If they are big and bulky then I try and slow things down, do higher reps and lower weight. If they are toned and look pretty good then I throw some additional weight on the bar and try to make them bigger with quicker lower reps.
2. How has the weight I am repping increased from last week or last month depending on where I am in my training program and what muscle group it is.

This back-and-forth has done me pretty well. I have been lifting off-and-on since I 2004 and last year is when I really started to notice this mind set working. Last fall semester there were 2 skinny-fats (double-dragon) that were going to the gym at the same time everyday and always together. I watched them progressively get stronger, their muscles were getting bigger and on top of that they were getting more definition, put simply; I was jealous. Being the big guy I am (as far as fat content) I never really wore anything more revealing than a sleeveless-T at the gym but one day my training partner (who is a pretty tiny guy but a good friend and who was their to work hard and push me) said I should wear my tank tops so I could at least see my back and shoulders. After a few days of wearing them at the gym I had at least 6 people stop and tell me how fucking big I was, including the 2 kids who I was jealous of, who told me they were jealous.

Maybe I don't know the backstory here. Did you use to be a fat, lazy, super-geek or something? Because this whole diatribe displays some rather remarkable and deep-rooted existential insecurity.

In my opinion as an athlete (and one with an unfair genetic advantage, sorry bros), the means in how you train are always more important than the ends (results).

What I mean by that, is that you should be training in a way that is fostered by, and for the sake of challenging yourself physically and mentally. Not for the sake of fulfilling some vapid hole in your existential psyche.

I moonlight as a personal trainer, and most of the time I advocate my clients (most of whom are women, and working professionals) search for a system that works for them. But, in this case I would want to train with you in a more one-on-one situation as to help you to develop a healthier mindset towards your personal goals.

As a man, as an athlete. When you step into the gym, all of that superficial shit; like what you look like in your sleeveless tank, or how many bros come up to you to tell you how jacked you are, should instantly disappear. The physical and mental challenge of what you are trying to attempt should be all that lies in front of you.

If you aren't approaching your training in this way, you are limiting your capability to make yourself a bigger, faster, stronger athlete. You are chasing an empty vessel. When you hit a road block, and that superficial reinforcement stops ("how your muscles look when they are warmed up", adjusting your reps/weight for "pump", etc). You'll find yourself stuck in a plateau with no means to get out of it.

I get the notion that your intentions probably have been good, and that your goal has been to improve yourself, but from the outside looking in, this whole story just makes you come off as a massively insecure tool/douchebag.

*Disclaimer: Not trolling you, never had any e-opinion of you one way or the other, just some observations/concerns.

by **seanality** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 12:38 pm

ricky you are a dick. lol

by **Rambizzle** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 12:37 pm

by **seanality** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 11:59 am

That pretty much sums up my routines.

As lame as this might sound when I lift I focus on 2 things;
1. How my muscles look once warmed-up- If they are big and bulky then I try and slow things down, do higher reps and lower weight. If they are toned and look pretty good then I throw some additional weight on the bar and try to make them bigger with quicker lower reps.
2. How has the weight I am repping increased from last week or last month depending on where I am in my training program and what muscle group it is.

This back-and-forth has done me pretty well. I have been lifting off-and-on since I 2004 and last year is when I really started to notice this mind set working. Last fall semester there were 2 skinny-fats (double-dragon) that were going to the gym at the same time everyday and always together. I watched them progressively get stronger, their muscles were getting bigger and on top of that they were getting more definition, put simply; I was jealous. Being the big guy I am (as far as fat content) I never really wore anything more revealing than a sleeveless-T at the gym but one day my training partner (who is a pretty tiny guy but a good friend and who was their to work hard and push me) said I should wear my tank tops so I could at least see my back and shoulders. After a few days of wearing them at the gym I had at least 6 people stop and tell me how fucking big I was, including the 2 kids who I was jealous of, who later told me how jealous they were.

by **kirk** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 11:26 am

james- wrote:
Oh, and drink 1 gallon of milk per day.
I've read about this GOMAD thing. I was actually tempted to try it because of how much weight I was loosing at work (Tearing off roofs in 120 degree heat is brutal)

Is this a legitimate weight gain strategy if it is mixed with a good workout routine? Or is this some srs trollin'

It's a legitimate way if you are having trouble getting to a hypercaloric diet, yes.

Muscle is built through a caloric surplus, ample protein (~1g per pound LBM), and weight training 3-5x per week. Drinking a gallon of milk per day won't magically make this process easier unless you are having trouble hitting your caloric surplus on a daily basis. If you can hit your surplus with more food and less milk, the results will be just as good assuming macronutrients are matched.

seanality wrote:I want some other people's opinion on this:

To build muscle mass and strength what style of reps should be done; fast and powerful, slow to stretch the muscle and pinch all the way through, or should sets be a combination of the two, or even have warmup sets be slow and the later, higher weighted, sets fast and powerful?

Strength training will be different from hypertrophy training. Strength training usually employs less reps, and hypertrophy usually employs 2-3x the reps of your standards strength training.

I would consider a routine that has you doing strength and hypertrophy each week.

I ask because when reading things on increasing your bench a lot of people say explode throughout the whole rep to build a lot of power. The same is true when you watch people like Jay Cutler or Ronnie Coleman lift, they just BOOM EXPLODE through most reps. But, some people say that you don't really good a nice looking muscle by doing that. If both are true then I guess it's all personal opinion (which I am sure it is going to boil down to that anyway), just the same let me know.

Explode so long as you are still in control of the weight. As long as you aren't using momentum, then you should be fine.

Jay Cutler and Ronnie Coleman tens of thousands of dollars of steroids every few months, realize. Their opinions on proper form and the end result of employing that form for a natural weight lifter isn't very sound.

Since I started lifting last week I decided to swallow my pride and try and take about 2-3 second per a rep on any exercise which in turn obviously makes it harder to do higher weight. I do this so I can tear the shit out of my muscles and hopefully see some quick definition so it keeps me motivated to continue going to the gym. I find it also gives a good base to build on top of.

Where before (about 4 1/2 months ago) when I was a lot bigger and stronger when I would do, what I like to call "mass building exercises" (such as; bench press, squat, shoulder press, shruggs, t-bar rows, deadlifts, and wide grip lay pull downs) I might make the first 1-2 sets (which were my warmup sets) slow and controlled to get some blood flowing and stretch the muscle. Where the later higher weighted reps I would explode all the way through and try to build the weight up to get some more strength.

It all depends on how you define explode. I've seen a lot of people "explode" on lat pulldowns, and they just swing with their lower back to get the weight down. I'm sure EVERYONE has seen this. THAT kind of "explode" doesn't do a whole lot for your lats' ROM. And in turn I would imagine it wouldn't result in optimal growth.

by **Rambizzle** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 10:35 am

by **seanality** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 9:43 am

I want some other people's opinion on this:

To build muscle mass and strength what style of reps should be done; fast and powerful, slow to stretch the muscle and pinch all the way through, or should sets be a combination of the two, or even have warmup sets be slow and the later, higher weighted, sets fast and powerful?

I ask because when reading things on increasing your bench a lot of people say explode throughout the whole rep to build a lot of power. The same is true when you watch people like Jay Cutler or Ronnie Coleman lift, they just BOOM EXPLODE through most reps. But, some people say that you don't really good a nice looking muscle by doing that. If both are true then I guess it's all personal opinion (which I am sure it is going to boil down to that anyway), just the same let me know.

Here is my experience:

Since I started lifting last week I decided to swallow my pride and try and take about 2-3 second per a rep on any exercise which in turn obviously makes it harder to do higher weight. I do this so I can tear the shit out of my muscles and hopefully see some quick definition so it keeps me motivated to continue going to the gym. I find it also gives a good base to build on top of.

Where before (about 4 1/2 months ago) when I was a lot bigger and stronger when I would do, what I like to call "mass building exercises" (such as; bench press, squat, shoulder press, shruggs, t-bar rows, deadlifts, and wide grip lay pull downs) I might make the first 1-2 sets (which were my warmup sets) slow and controlled to get some blood flowing and stretch the muscle. Where the later higher weighted reps I would explode all the way through and try to build the weight up to get some more strength.

by **pinecone** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 9:27 am

6 pages and no one has even dared utter the words buncha fatties!

Seriously, depends on what you want to do, chose to cut and not GETBIGBRO, run swim eat healthy ride bike on weekends, worked great for me. Diet & Exercise. Used to be the big guy at the gym, like 235 - 240, now weigh 185 and couldn't be happier. Completely changed my workout routine left the weights alone and did straight cardio...Anyways, never taken any multivitamins or shakes or anything, so it just depends on how hard you want to work at it. All naturals.

Also since i'm only 25 let me add that running in about 110 heat isn't fun but its worth it, wouldn't dare it once i got over about 40 or so. FIT AS AN OX~

by **lowcarb** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 6:56 am

ricky, i'm doing layne's new one -- it's intense, lolZ

by **james-** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 5:08 am

Oh, and drink 1 gallon of milk per day.

I've read about this GOMAD thing. I was actually tempted to try it because of how much weight I was loosing at work (Tearing off roofs in 120 degree heat is brutal)

Is this a legitimate weight gain strategy if it is mixed with a good workout routine? Or is this some srs trollin'

by **kirk** » Tue Jul 19, 2011 11:27 am

Rambizzle wrote:on the right side under your avi, click friends, then "Your fan club"

One of the guys in my fan club:

Added You: Sep 13, 2010 11:50pm
Their Comment: Thanks for the advice

Lulz. A bit late on that request.

by **Rambizzle** » Tue Jul 19, 2011 11:25 am

on the right side under your avi, click friends, then "Your fan club"

lol @ the last comment, swolbrah provides the lulz

by **kirk** » Tue Jul 19, 2011 11:21 am

Rambizzle wrote:I'll hit 1000 by next week. sent a friend request, accept it already so it wont show me as a stalker ffs.

edit:
I'm beta as phuck... 07-19-2011 02:12 PM mynameiskirk Your beach was the central pond of your trailer park. Don't lie.

real mature.

I felt it appropriate.

How do I accept friend requests?

by **Rambizzle** » Tue Jul 19, 2011 11:12 am

I'll hit 1000 by next week. sent a friend request, accept it already so it wont show me as a stalker ffs.

edit:
I'm beta as phuck... 07-19-2011 02:12 PM mynameiskirk Your beach was the central pond of your trailer park. Don't lie.

real mature.

by **kirk** » Tue Jul 19, 2011 11:11 am

Rambizzle wrote:true. I looked at the newer version of laynes routine and was like notsureifwant.jpg. looks pretty fucking intense.

alex kirk are you off spread yet? don't forget about our srt.

Almost at 4k.

Mirin'?

Ya u mirin'.

by **Rambizzle** » Tue Jul 19, 2011 10:57 am

true. I looked at the newer version of laynes routine and was like notsureifwant.jpg. looks pretty fucking intense.

alex kirk are you off spread yet? don't forget about our srt.

by **sevEN** » Tue Jul 19, 2011 10:42 am

Well rickey, its not laynes exact routine, I just took the general idea of having an upper strength, lower strength, upper hypertrophy, and lower hypertroophy once a week. The lifts I do on these days follow the general routine but I switch it up based on how I feel and like doing. I dont have the time to break upper body into 3 workouts since im workimg 40 hrs/wk now, so I decided to switch to this so I could hit tje upper body all in onw workout. This spliy takes me about 10 days btw... Just cant workout 4x a week these days

by **kirk** » Tue Jul 19, 2011 9:56 am

by **Rambizzle** » Tue Jul 19, 2011 8:02 am

Your leg routine looks pretty good. Stats are almost identical to mine (weak as fuck cuzz) on the lifts that I do.

My gym doesn't have a standing calf raise machine, so I just load up the smith machine, grab a small platform and do them that way... about the only thing the smith machine is good for, followed up by seated calf raises.

That seems like a shit load of volume compared to other hypertrophy routines, then again... its layne norton so we won't question it.

I was looking at switching from my current 4 day split to a hypertrophy routine something like this: http://thinkmuscle.com/training/hypertr ... ining/105/ or some variation of a 5/3/1 routine.

thoughts?

by **sevEN** » Tue Jul 19, 2011 7:05 am

btw, ryan/rickey/alex, did he really just say he bought cell-tech and no pics have been posted? Sons, I am disappoint.

by **sevEN** » Tue Jul 19, 2011 7:01 am

dont even think about posting in this dis here thread w/o a bibliography of peer-reviewed studdies..

btw, for the sake of the thread topic, i will post last night's leg workout. it is my 3rd or 4th hypertrophy leg workout on layne norton's strength/hypertrophy routine. No e-stats. squats are ATG to the max, no sears squats. going to reduce the volume a little bit because i feel like i may be over training a bit since i'm on a cut and not eating enough cals, but my legs are rather large/strong so it usually takes this much volume to kill them.

Squats: ATG, i promise.
135 x 12 (warmup)
165 x 12
185 x 12
205 x 12
225 x 12

Front squats: ATG ofcourse
165 x 12
175 x 12

Hack squat machine:
180 x 12
200 x 12
230 x 12
230 x 12

Leg Extension (both legs):
140 x 12
160 x 12
170 x 12

Leg Extension (single leg):
70 x 12 each leg
70 x 12 each leg

Seated hamstring curls:
110 x 12
120 x 12
125 x 12
125 x 12

Standing calf raise machine:
405 x 12 (max'd weight on machine)
495 x 12 (2 45 lb weights on top of the machine)
540 x 12 (3 45 lb weights on top of the machine)

Seated calf raises:
125 x 12
135 x 12
160 x 12
160 x 12

Barbell lunges: (pretty damn dead at this point)
115 x 12
135 x 12
135 x 12

keep in mind, i woke up at 6am and had a full 8-5 work day and came home and worked out at 630. body was tired to begin with.

also, my weight is atm 170-175, around ~11% BF.

by **kirk** » Mon Jul 18, 2011 2:28 pm

Rambizzle wrote:Dear Alex Kirk,

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthrea ... =136492691

you're welcome.

by **Rambizzle** » Mon Jul 18, 2011 2:22 pm

Dear Alex Kirk,

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthrea ... =136492691

you're welcome.

by **kirk** » Mon Jul 18, 2011 2:18 pm

endofOne wrote:Not sure if anyone answered this but the theory behind it is that water retention means more nutrients are held and readily available for quicker delivery to muscle tissue when its needed(decreasing recovery time). There really is a correlation between water retention and short term strength increases from using creatine etc. I notice at around the 2 week mark when I used creatine water retention would increase and all my lifts would increase pretty quickly with the extra water on board. Honestly that's the only real benefit from taking creatine. You get a slightly faster recovery from workouts.

I'd be curious to see more definitive information on that. Because that would have some implications for sodium intake...

by **endofOne** » Mon Jul 18, 2011 2:11 pm

alex kirk wrote:
seanality wrote:It increases your water retention and absorption so it does make you gain size.

What does water retention have to do with muscle mass?

Not sure if anyone answered this but the theory behind it is that water retention means more nutrients are held and readily available for quicker delivery to muscle tissue when its needed(decreasing recovery time). There really is a correlation between water retention and short term strength increases from using creatine etc. I notice at around the 2 week mark when I used creatine water retention would increase and all my lifts would increase pretty quickly with the extra water on board. Honestly that's the only real benefit from taking creatine. You get a slightly faster recovery from workouts.

by **nomis** » Mon Jul 18, 2011 1:37 pm

by **Rambizzle** » Mon Jul 18, 2011 1:00 pm

rymoz wrote:Im 18, do I have potential??

fucking lol'd. went to rep you, realized theres no rep system fuuuuuu.

be careful with that cell tech, that some serious shit bro.

edit: weight: 245! time to cut down to about 200-210 and look jacked as fuck cuzz.

by **kirk** » Mon Jul 18, 2011 12:35 pm

seanality wrote:Yes, yes you do.

[img]http://imagecdn.bodybuilding.com/img/us ... 9.jpeg[img]

This was like 6 months ago before I threw cycling into my program.

BodySpace: http://bodyspace.bodybuilding.com/seanality/

Stay away from the misc, losing fat, and supplement section if you want actual accurate input.

Seek the nutrition section, haha.

by **seanality** » Mon Jul 18, 2011 12:26 pm

Yes, yes you do.

This was like 6 months ago before I threw cycling into my program.

BodySpace: http://bodyspace.bodybuilding.com/seanality/

by **rymoz** » Mon Jul 18, 2011 12:21 pm

Im 18, do I have potential??

by **kirk** » Mon Jul 18, 2011 12:20 pm

rehpyc wrote:"I want to get jacked" "should I take roids?" you seriously sound retarded. Find out your base caloric need and eat more than that.

Alex, what does your studying of research reveal about eating multiple small meals throughout the day and its effect on the metabolism. Also, aren't you starving your body with your diet, thus hurting your gains? A lack of protein causes the body to feed off of muscle some, right?

There is zero research that "reveals" multiple small meals throughout the day and its effect on metabolism. There is a confounding variable in all of the studies promoting the beneficial effects of multiple small meals: lack of caloric control among experimental groups. In all those studies, the groups that eat smaller meals throughout the day end up eating less calories. If calories are kept the same, meal frequency has zero bearing on body composition and metabolism. I'd be happy to post lots of research on the matter if you ACTUALLY intend on reading it. I can find one that shows higher fat loss in a group of people that eat 1 meal per day compared to 3 meals per day with no measurable difference in muscle mass.

Metabolic effect from eating food = TEF = thermic effect of food. This is a dose-dependent response. Meaning eating 1,800 calories in one meal vs. eating 300 calories in 6 meals yields the same NET effect at the end of the day.

Not starving my body. Advanced catabolism does not occur until ~24 hours post glycogen depletion assuming your body is not in a state of ketosis. The whole scare about catabolism is fueled by supplement companies to get people to buy their stuff. These are the same people that tell people they have to drink a whey shake (NOT CASEIN!) 30 minutes post-workout, and also stress the differences between whey and casein in terms of supplements. It really takes effort to get to those stages of catabolism. People believe our bodies make decisions based on 2-3 hour time frames, but that's so unbelievably false. Our bodies make decisions on 24-72 hour time frames given the issues we're talking about.

And yes, a lack of free amino acids = muscle catabolism. But what matters is what your intake looks like at the end of the day. Free amino acids stay in the blood stream for a long ass time. That coupled with glycogen's anti-muscular catabolic effects means serious lack of muscle catabolism.

seanality wrote:At this point roids are just something I would like to look into. I am not the small kid on the football team trying to catch up to the bigger boys. I am the big guy in the gym (college gym) who is trying to meet and beat his own personal goals and look good doing it. I know there are health issues with them but much like any supplement 1 is better for you than the other and I was looking for that insight from someone.

I think I will stick to my normal routine and try to make something of my diet, I mean at this point it is very random. The only thing I can really improve right now outside of the gym without hurting my wallet is the amount of sleep I get.

I would strongly urge you to stay away from steroids for now, until you hit your genetic capacity. Srs.

Cut to 10-12% body fat, bulk back up again, cut down again, bulk again. Repeat.

by **seanality** » Mon Jul 18, 2011 12:13 pm

At this point roids are just something I would like to look into. I am not the small kid on the football team trying to catch up to the bigger boys. I am the big guy in the gym (college gym) who is trying to meet and beat his own personal goals and look good doing it. I know there are health issues with them but much like any supplement 1 is better for you than the other and I was looking for that insight from someone.

I think I will stick to my normal routine and try to make something of my diet, I mean at this point it is very random. The only thing I can really improve right now outside of the gym without hurting my wallet is the amount of sleep I get.

by **rehpyc** » Mon Jul 18, 2011 12:03 pm

"I want to get jacked" "should I take roids?" you seriously sound retarded. Find out your base caloric need and eat more than that.

Alex, what does your studying of research reveal about eating multiple small meals throughout the day and its effect on the metabolism. Also, aren't you starving your body with your diet, thus hurting your gains? A lack of protein causes the body to feed off of muscle some, right?

by **kirk** » Mon Jul 18, 2011 12:02 pm

seanality wrote:I'll consider all of this.

I know I have a gut but I don't feel as though I can't slap it into shape when I want to.

Then I would highly suggest slapping it into shape first! You have to work according to the abilities of the human body. If you want to gain long-term mass or strength, you have to gain weight, and subsequently you WILL gain fat. If you want to lose fat, you have to be in a chronic caloric deficit, and subsequently you will lose some (minimal) muscle mass and strength. You have to work in bulking/cutting cycles.

seanality wrote:The idea behind the roids is to surpass that plateau which I was at before. I continued to increase all of my lifts to the point where I could max the lat pull down for reps of 16 at 250, t-bar row over 250 for reps of 16, dumbell curl 75's, shoulder press 100's, and bench 315 for reps of 3. I just noticed that it wasn't 1 area that I was plateaued at but all and yes some of the reasons for the plateau were gym related but my diet was pretty intense, all geared towards high protein, low flower and sugar and over a gallon of water a day.

What makes you think low flour/sugar will help with your lifts?

I would hold off on steroids for now if you are insistent on taking them at some point. I personally would never condone steroid use, but I realize many people want to try them, so all I can say is to be smart about them. To jump into them now would be very unwise.

by **seanality** » Mon Jul 18, 2011 11:59 am

alex kirk wrote:
seanality wrote:It increases your water retention and absorption so it does make you gain size.
What does water retention have to do with muscle mass?

I am not trying to bulk I just so happened to get a product for a 10th of its normal cost, I wasn't about to pass it up. In the past I always looked at it and passed it off as something I didn't need or want especially for its cost.

I have no idea what my body fat percentage is, all I can say is it is higher than I would like and a lot higher than it was 4 years ago when I dropped down to 190 lbs.

My main goal right now is to get my strength back to and above where it was 4 months ago. After that I plan to keep increasing my maxs and then cut.
Trying to gain strength over long periods of time does require a caloric surplus, which does imply bulking. I would seriously cut before bulking. You won't see any long-term gains in strength or mass without a regular, hypercaloric diet. By the time you get to the numbers you want to see, you could easily be clinically obese. Easily, if you're 6'2" and 240 pounds with a high body fat percentage as is.

If you cut properly, you won't lose much mass/strength at all, and once you're done you'll be in more of a position to add mass/strength without risking your health. Just saying.

I'll consider all of this.

I know I have a gut but I don't feel as though I can't slap it into shape when I want to.

by **kirk** » Mon Jul 18, 2011 11:55 am

seanality wrote:It increases your water retention and absorption so it does make you gain size.

What does water retention have to do with muscle mass?

I am not trying to bulk I just so happened to get a product for a 10th of its normal cost, I wasn't about to pass it up. In the past I always looked at it and passed it off as something I didn't need or want especially for its cost.

I have no idea what my body fat percentage is, all I can say is it is higher than I would like and a lot higher than it was 4 years ago when I dropped down to 190 lbs.

My main goal right now is to get my strength back to and above where it was 4 months ago. After that I plan to keep increasing my maxs and then cut.

Trying to gain strength over long periods of time does require a caloric surplus, which does imply bulking. I would seriously cut before bulking. You won't see any long-term gains in strength or mass without a regular, hypercaloric diet. By the time you get to the numbers you want to see, you could easily be clinically obese. Easily, if you're 6'2" and 240 pounds with a high body fat percentage as is.

If you cut properly, you won't lose much mass/strength at all, and once you're done you'll be in more of a position to add mass/strength without risking your health. Just saying.

by **seanality** » Mon Jul 18, 2011 11:51 am

alex kirk wrote: 1) Cell-Tech won't make you gain size. Caloric surplus will make you gain size.
2) Don't take roids until you reach your genetic potential, which you have not. And not until you have thoroughly, thoroughly studied the topic.

You said you're 6'2" and 240 pounds? What is your body fat percentage? Why are you bulking?

It increases your water retention and absorption so it does make you gain size.

I am not trying to bulk I just so happened to get a product for a 10th of its normal cost, I wasn't about to pass it up. In the past I always looked at it and passed it off as something I didn't need or want especially for its cost.

I have no idea what my body fat percentage is, all I can say is it is higher than I would like and a lot higher than it was 4 years ago when I dropped down to 190 lbs.

My main goal right now is to get my strength back to and above where it was 4 months ago. After that I plan to keep increasing my maxs and then cut.

The idea behind the roids is to surpass that plateau which I was at before. I continued to increase all of my lifts to the point where I could max the lat pull down for reps of 16 at 250, t-bar row over 250 for reps of 16, dumbell curl 75's, shoulder press 100's, and bench 315 for reps of 3. I just noticed that it wasn't 1 area that I was plateaued at but all and yes some of the reasons for the plateau were gym related but my diet was pretty intense, all geared towards high protein, low flower and sugar and over a gallon of water a day.

by **kirk** » Mon Jul 18, 2011 11:44 am

seanality wrote:Let's get back to the topic which this thread was geared towards.

What is your weekly routine right now?
What are your goals?
What is your 1 rep max (if you even know or care)?
What supplements do you use?

I just started taking Cell-Tech yesterday, normally a $45 product I bought it for $5 from a military store. I know this will make me size up but I feel like I need to get the good old muscles working again at full strength so I can actually start my real routine again.

P.S. Does anyone do, tried, or know much about roids? I feel like I am at the point where I want to go full cookie.

1) Cell-Tech won't make you gain size. Caloric surplus will make you gain size.
2) Don't take roids until you reach your genetic potential, which you have not. And not until you have thoroughly, thoroughly studied the topic.

You said you're 6'2" and 240 pounds? What is your body fat percentage? Why are you bulking?

by **seanality** » Mon Jul 18, 2011 11:40 am

Let's get back to the topic which this thread was geared towards.

What is your weekly routine right now?
What are your goals?
What is your 1 rep max (if you even know or care)?
What supplements do you use?

I just started taking Cell-Tech yesterday, normally a $45 product I bought it for $5 from a military store. I know this will make me size up but I feel like I need to get the good old muscles working again at full strength so I can actually start my real routine again.

P.S. Does anyone do, tried, or know much about roids? I feel like I am at the point where I want to go full cookie.

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