TPG/rwc,

kirk · Post by **kirk** » Wed Jun 01, 2011 1:24 pm

Can you give us the option to play emmanuel or to opt out and play a different map for week 8? If both teams agree, why not?

It's just kind of 'blah' to throw a brand new map in less than a week before matches are to be played. Odds are most teams will not have this map downloaded until 2 minutes before their match :X

riveroyster · Post by **riveroyster** » Wed Jun 01, 2011 1:25 pm

i concur

JaGGoNdd · Post by **JaGGoNdd** » Wed Jun 01, 2011 1:26 pm

yeah i second this. in all honesty this emmanuel map is getting special treatment that no new custom map has ever received before. it has always been common sense that when a new map comes out, you wait until the next pre season to play it and see how well it is received by the league. now suddenly we insert it the week OF the match? makes no sense at all.

100% agree with alex. i know most people arent huge avalanche fans but that was the map that was selected before the season and inserting a new custom map 4 days before match night is kind of ridiculous.

defiance · Post by **defiance** » Wed Jun 01, 2011 1:39 pm

100% agreed.

played a bunch of people last night who obviously already played the map and absolutely got shit stomped(worse than ususal.) The teams with players who have been scrimming this and testing it are going to have a huge advantage.

No map has EVER, that i can recall in my 8 years of playing this game, just been thrown into a regular season without prior preseason play.

Obviously, we were going to be allowed to play a pub map and my heart was full of happiness and now i am full of sadness and rage. Let us play kalt!!

okay it was worth a try, but seriously, Sherman, muhle, cr44, cal_saints?? Anything that we know.

joeledmunds · Post by **joeledmunds** » Wed Jun 01, 2011 1:41 pm

I can't see emmanuel being worse than ava as far as a match goes, but giving a choice seems like a very sensible idea.

Weird that it came from Alex.

k4b00m · Post by **k4b00m** » Wed Jun 01, 2011 1:44 pm

I like the map but it's kinda last minute to throw that in there now, next season preseason and even regular season would be swell, but apparently ppl care about matches nowadays and ITS CRUNCH TIME, GOTTA MAKE DEM PLAYOFFS. wooooooo ;p

Sears · Post by **Sears** » Wed Jun 01, 2011 1:45 pm

It's a good move to do away with avalanche, but teams should have the option of agreeing on another map if they don't want to play emmanuel.

New maps (regardless of how they play in 12 mans) should always be tested in pre-season.

Also, has TPG considered shortening their seasons by a couple weeks given how much smaller the community is these days?? Seems like 10 weeks of regular season is a bit excessive. Shortening the regular season to 8 weeks keeps things moving and helps you to avoid map issues like this.

joeledmunds · Post by **joeledmunds** » Wed Jun 01, 2011 1:51 pm

I haven't scrimmed the map either, but I'm pretty sure that you can run around it for 10 minutes and figure it out. I'm not saying don't give a choice, but it's not this much of a big deal. It's DoD in 2011, the map seems solid, and while I have also not seen something be thrown into league play like this (outside of OGL 9 years ago), no one would play it in preseason anyways, and from what I've heard a lot of people would rather play something like this instead of avalanche anyways (a map that has been tried again and again in many preseasons, and has hardly made it into any regular rotations).

joeledmunds · Post by **joeledmunds** » Wed Jun 01, 2011 1:51 pm

Everyone posts much faster than me.

ohhhhbeeee · Post by **ohhhhbeeee** » Wed Jun 01, 2011 2:09 pm

any team playing us will be playing dod_obmunds.

end of discussion.

stealthlol · Post by **stealthlol** » Wed Jun 01, 2011 2:10 pm

ohhhhbeeee wrote:any team playing us will be playing dod_obmunds.

end of discussion.

Any team playing us will be dod_obmundsardner.

end of discussion.

kirk · Post by **kirk** » Wed Jun 01, 2011 2:25 pm

stealthlol wrote:
ohhhhbeeee wrote:any team playing us will be playing dod_obmunds.

end of discussion.
Any team playing us will be dod_obmundsardner.

end of discussion.

While looking at a database of superhero names, I came across Guy Gardner.

1) Any relation?
2) Is that why you have a strict 9 pm "bedtime" every single night?
3) New alias.

stealthlol · Post by **stealthlol** » Wed Jun 01, 2011 2:28 pm

1) I can't tell you even if I wanted to.
2) Look at number 1. But yes.
3) Clearly.

Schmiggs · Post by **Schmiggs** » Wed Jun 01, 2011 2:50 pm

dod_heutau or dod_zafod ftw!

JaGGoNdd · Post by **JaGGoNdd** » Wed Jun 01, 2011 2:52 pm

lol if only zafod hadn't been exposed for its glitchy spawn by good old scriptykTzshawnarrington

cassinoroyale · Post by **cassinoroyale** » Wed Jun 01, 2011 3:55 pm

I don't have problems on changing this map on the nick of time. However not everyone has played it already so if it's really common sense from both teams I feel ok on let them to decide. If not I'd suggest muhle_b2. Very balanced and fast paced.

I kinda liked a lot dod_emmanuel_b1 but I need to agree that no other map got this treatment before :T

toxinatoR · Post by **toxinatoR** » Wed Jun 01, 2011 4:15 pm

I'm fine with there being a vote, or substituting avalanche with either, saints or sherman. Avalanche blows and should not have been in the rotation to begin with.. Hate to break your heart corey.

Airnick15 · Post by **Airnick15** » Wed Jun 01, 2011 4:28 pm

I miss zafod.

joeledmunds · Post by **joeledmunds** » Wed Jun 01, 2011 4:35 pm

Best part of Zafod? Breaking the water.

JaGGoNdd · Post by **JaGGoNdd** » Wed Jun 01, 2011 4:45 pm

im not even saying having avalanche was a good idea to begin with, the point was that it was put in the rotation, stayed in the rotation until 4 days before match night, and therefore shouldn't have just been instantly removed for a brand new map. don't even attempt arguing with that point cus ill bite your nipples

JaGGoNdd · Post by **JaGGoNdd** » Wed Jun 01, 2011 4:49 pm

and in response to cass, muhle hasnt been played in like 3 season in tpg for a reason lol that map has already had its chance and it didn't play well at all, same goes for aleutian. hopefully this emmanuel map doesnt turn out the way those 2 maps did, it seems like it's much better already but as i said before, the whole precedent of having a map rotation gets taken away if a map can just be replaced the week of the match, for any map whether its emmanuel or saints or w.e. but yeah, if youre gonna replace a map the same week the match is supposed to be played, replace it with something that the majority of the community has actually played and is familiar with, not a brand new map. emmanuel shouldnt be played in a league until DCN/next TPG preseason

james- · Post by **james-** » Wed Jun 01, 2011 5:38 pm

cassinoroyale wrote:I don't have problems on changing this map on the nick of time. However not everyone has played it already so if it's really common sense from both teams I feel ok on let them to decide. If not I'd suggest muhle_b2. Very balanced and fast paced.

I kinda liked a lot dod_emmanuel_b1 but I need to agree that no other map got this treatment before :T

Did you really suggest muhle? This whole issue is based around people not having enough experience with the map, if you were to switch it to muhle you would be in the same position tpg's currently in. Half the community would be fine with it, the other half would be furious because they've only played the map once or twice.

Put it up to a vote that is limited to the teams/players in TPG.

edit: and what happened too cr44? I only recall playing it one time in league play since betas. From my experience it's the most well accepted and entertaining bridge map. It's not too hard to see anyone, the hitboxes on the oldschool sandbags are much more defined. I don't recall any problems caused by the viewpoint change in retail. Granted there are some lame ninja spots, but every bridge map has that and several more cons to go along with it.

Miller` · Post by **Miller`** » Wed Jun 01, 2011 5:51 pm

Amazed that Kirk had two good ideas in one thread. WTF?

cassinoroyale · Post by **cassinoroyale** » Wed Jun 01, 2011 6:04 pm

Hey guys, I'm sorry! Didn't knew that muhle wasn't so played (and hated) by you guys for quite a while. However muhle was in TPG last season (pre season 2).

And hey, this was just my opinion and I was just sharing it with you guys. I really like maps like fast paced maps aleutian, muhle or sherman_b2. USA teams plays somewhat more tactical and rhythmic if compared to SA - which is more agressive and less tactical.

Personally I just can't stand playing maps that are so damm big and impossible to cap when teams are balanced like donner, solitude_b2 or saints.

unpro · Post by **unpro** » Wed Jun 01, 2011 6:12 pm

i like donner for that stalemate play style. it makes those "oh shit" pushes exciting

rwc8thc · Post by **rwc8thc** » Wed Jun 01, 2011 6:45 pm

alex kirk wrote:Can you give us the option to play emmanuel or to opt out and play a different map for week 8? If both teams agree, why not?

I see what you're getting at Alex, but that would defeat the purpose of a schedule to begin with. The idea is that you guys are supposed to play the official map of the week and not just play any map you want because "we both agreed on it."

I should've taken a better look at avalanche before ever putting it in the rotation. I'm sorry about that, it is what it is. It needed to be replaced for a number of reasons, and when I was thinking of an alternative map I came across emmanuel. It didn't cross my mind initially to use it for week 8 but the more I looked at it the more I realized it had all the elements that any good map needs to be fun and exciting. Then after 12 manning it, I was sold.

Is it unusual to replace the map of the week within a few days? Yeah it is, and I do apologize. I've done everything I can to avoid the confusion though. I notified almost everyone in TPG about the change, did schedules a day early, and posted up all the files you need so they're readily available. It should be a seamless transition into week 8.

toxinatoR · Post by **toxinatoR** » Wed Jun 01, 2011 6:58 pm

How about we just play chemille this week and emmanuel next?

JaGGoNdd · Post by **JaGGoNdd** » Wed Jun 01, 2011 7:04 pm

so this still isnt even going to go to a vote? or what jared said? hrmmm. not saying emmanuel is a bad map but yeah, it really isn't normal to throw a brand new map this late into the season at all let alone as a replacement map mid week :/

kirk · Post by **kirk** » Wed Jun 01, 2011 7:05 pm

Miller` wrote:Amazed that Kirk had two good ideas in one thread. WTF?

It's like you're begging me to send you gay, German animal porn to your cell phone.

rwc8thc wrote:
alex kirk wrote:Can you give us the option to play emmanuel or to opt out and play a different map for week 8? If both teams agree, why not?
I see what you're getting at Alex, but that would defeat the purpose of a schedule to begin with. The idea is that you guys are supposed to play the official map of the week and not just play any map you want because "we both agreed on it."

I think it would be justifiable in this case given the circumstances, though. The schedule was not set upon learning of avalanche's drawbacks. Thus it's permissible to improvise a bit more and be more lax on how set the schedule is just for this week. It's one thing if the schedule has been set all along, but this week is an exception for the very fact that it's clearly NOT set. Hence switching out maps 5 days before matches are scheduled.

I feel like it doesn't create disorder nor does it do anyone wrong to give teams a choice. If they can't agree, make them play emmanuel I guess. If they can both agree to opt out and play something else that is approved by you, then why not? Just for this week, again, given the inconsistent nature.

I just feel like most teams, probably 70% of them, won't know what this map is until 5 minutes before the match when they are logging onto the TPG site to download it.

toxinatoR wrote:How about we just play chemille this week and emmanuel next?

ABSOLUTELY NOT. I WILL NOT BE HERE THIS WEEK AND REFUSE TO MISS CHEMILLE.

Wint0 · Post by **Wint0** » Wed Jun 01, 2011 7:12 pm

Last time i checked matches have 2 halvvs.... avalance has two sides? you get to switch sides? each team has a different way of playing both sides? Axis side(maybe?) usually wins?

wwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwhhhhhhhhhhaaaaaaaaaaattttttttttts the point of getting rid of a map 4 days before we play it?

toxinatoR · Post by **toxinatoR** » Wed Jun 01, 2011 7:14 pm

Hahahaah I figured since you love chemille you would have loved that idea alex.. But if you plan to keep emmanuel the best idea maybe just to switch the weeks or use something like saints or sherman.. A map mostly everyone knows... I don't agree with all different teams playing a map they vote on.. Each map has a diff config and scoring system.. And since tpg goes strictly by record then point differential this would be a bad idea... Rpi? Please?

kirk · Post by **kirk** » Wed Jun 01, 2011 7:19 pm

toxinatoR wrote:Hahahaah I figured since you love chemille you would have loved that idea alex.. But if you plan to keep emmanuel the best idea maybe just to switch the weeks or use something like saints or sherman.. A map mostly everyone knows... I don't agree with all different teams playing a map they vote on.. Each map has a diff config and scoring system.. And since tpg goes strictly by record then point differential this would be a bad idea... Rpi? Please?

The last point makes sense. It's just a bit of a curveball to say, "here's a brand new map, the vast majority of the community has not played it, but you're all playing it for your regular season match in 5 days." I'm not opposed to tossing it in regular season despite it being new, just opposed to it being played with 5 days warning.

I would love the idea if I weren't going to be benching this week :[

c-tOn · Post by **c-tOn** » Wed Jun 01, 2011 7:25 pm

you'd rather play ava?

kirk · Post by **kirk** » Wed Jun 01, 2011 7:33 pm

c-tOn wrote:you'd rather play ava?

Yep! Or any other map that I'm actually familiar with. Even anzio. And I LOATHE anzio.

Like I said before: I'm not against playing emmanuel. I'm just against playing it with 5 days warning.

rwc8thc · Post by **rwc8thc** » Wed Jun 01, 2011 8:10 pm

alex kirk wrote:
c-tOn wrote:you'd rather play ava?
I'm not against playing emmanuel. I'm just against playing it with 5 days warning.

Why though? Is there a reason aside from that the fact that this just isn't normally done?

kirk · Post by **kirk** » Wed Jun 01, 2011 8:15 pm

rwc8thc wrote:
alex kirk wrote:
c-tOn wrote:you'd rather play ava?
I'm not against playing emmanuel. I'm just against playing it with 5 days warning.
Why though? Is there a reason aside from that the fact that this just isn't normally done?

Not necessarily. I'd be cool with playing it if teams had 2-3 weeks notice (or more). But making an announcement 5 days before matches when most teams will not touch to map (and many of those teams may not even find out about it until the day of, let's be honest) is just too short notice.

Narc · Post by **Narc** » Wed Jun 01, 2011 9:01 pm

Dcn is doing a map vote week 4. Players will vote on the default map for the week, however if both teams agree to do another its fine, if they cant they play the voted map.
The down side to this is the rpi that dcn will be using. Being that teams may play different maps, it will change the rpi for each team differently that week. That isnt going to be a good thing, and I am not sure how its going to work.
I asked if the rpi could be changed for that week and I got a no. So its going to be a hit or miss with the vote thing.
However I think if two teams were trying to raise rpi they might agree to play on a fast paced map?? I dunno.. Seemed like a good idea and we will have to see.

As for the tpg issue. I look at it like this. Its a league that has teams competing for playoffs and then a championship. If you throw a map in that noone has ever played before. as opposed to throwing in like sherman...it gives teams a harder time to make strat and have teamwork making a team not play as well as they could have...
yes it will be across the board evenly but this isnt the navy seals, teams shouldnt have to be tested on spur of the moment thinking. So I would vote not to force teams to play the new map. Make it a map everyone knows, and play it in preseason next season. I did want to see how it played out though, because I would like to add it to DCN map rotation if its worthy.

my 2 cents

hildebrand · Post by **hildebrand** » Wed Jun 01, 2011 10:54 pm

i think it would be really neat to see people put into a situation where teams are discovering maps for the first time. shows which teams have top teamwork and skill. neat idea imo.

Schmiggs · Post by **Schmiggs** » Thu Jun 02, 2011 5:03 am

Just download the map and play it. Use the people on your roster that have actually played it. I'll have to get on the newest version to check it out and hopefully play it once or twice before Sunday.

ohhhhbeeee · Post by **ohhhhbeeee** » Thu Jun 02, 2011 9:43 am

don't let kirk fool you. he doesn't wasn't to play avalance, especially after that anal pounding links gave him the last time he played that map in a match.

rdk · Post by **rdk** » Thu Jun 02, 2011 10:08 am

o lord we play risk on a map i havent ever seen and played. hilde bend over i need to climb on your back... as usual ^__^

Jb_ · Post by **Jb_** » Thu Jun 02, 2011 10:10 am

The map is fucking harrington backwards, wtf are you nerds talking about??? Seriously go in and run around, it aint that hard to figure the shit out. All you kids crying about this shit need to go suck on a titty...for real. Im down to play it bc its WAY BETTER then assolanche.

kirk · Post by **kirk** » Thu Jun 02, 2011 10:22 am

ohhhhbeeee wrote:don't let kirk fool you. he doesn't wasn't to play avalance, especially after that anal pounding links gave him the last time he played that map in a match.

I need to redeem myself. It's been 7 years since that match, and 7 years since avalanche has been a league map. I finally had my shot...

Airnick15 · Post by **Airnick15** » Thu Jun 02, 2011 2:27 pm

As I tell my team, winners win.

toxinatoR · Post by **toxinatoR** » Thu Jun 02, 2011 3:31 pm

Can def tell josh hasn't smoked or drank today... So much hostility.

Jb_ · Post by **Jb_** » Thu Jun 02, 2011 3:38 pm

toxinatoR wrote:Can def tell josh hasn't smoked or drank today... So much hostility.

workin on it.

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Thu Jun 02, 2011 7:43 pm

Why don't we just wait until tomorrow for the new version to come out?