1911 Beta

NERD THREAD

well, here we all are playing a 10 year old game, raging about how broken it is sometimes, but we keep playing every week. I'm curious: is it because you love DoD so much, or because there's no other decent competitive, fun team-based FPS around? Would you switch over if something good came along or stick with dod, because you like the nostalgia and CBA / don't have enough time to learn a new game? Is the era of popular competitive FPS games over?



Games around at the moment:
-CS:GO : kinda feels, looks and sounds a bit lame, and currently it's getting played less than 1.6 and source, so that kinda flopped a bit. In any case, CS was always a bit too slow and not as fun as dod for me.

-BF & CoD series : a joke. tiny skill ceiling, rewards slow play & hiding

-tribes ascend : only run around a bit on a public, didn't strike me as great - anyone played it properly?

-TF2 : really didn't see the appeal of this when I tried it

- quakelive: still going but not really team based.



Upcoming games:
-dirty bomb: from the wolfenstein guys, this looks quite promising: https://www.youtube.com/watch?&v=zYvMOpV2Rjs , seems they're interested in keeping competitive balance, will be free to play I think. mostly objective based. expensive as hell to get in the closed alpha. movement looks a BIT slow, at least there's no ironsights

-shootmania: not played much but it doesn't look like it has any depth in tactics, just a pure shooter?

-Reborn (2gd): apparently some guy 2gd is making a new shooter with the intention of replacing QL, not sure if it will ever happen ( http://www.tek-9.org/forum/off_topic-22 ... 11879.html for more)



Massive success of DOTA/SC2/LOL means game devs would rather make those type of games. If they do make an FPS, it's not hard to see why they'd rather churn out console BF/CoD type games than something better: simply, money. But maybe one of the above games has promise and could revitalise the genre. Thoughts>?

I play DoD 'cause most of my online mates play it. CS:GO is alright to play with your mates and stuff, but it's kinda shite for competitive play.

An1maL wrote: Games around at the moment:
-BF & CoD series : a joke. tiny skill ceiling, rewards slow play & hiding

BF3 has been a joke when it comes to competitive gameplay, because there's no spectate mode (and battlerecorder), I do miss them and so do many others.
Also some weapons are so overpowered/underpowered, because it takes 1-2 bullet to kill someone on long range with M5K, pistol(M9), but with M98, JNG-90 and M40 for example, you need 2 bullets most of the time : | (and this fucking slug shit for shotguns, shooting down choppers from the other side of the map )

But I do agree, there's lot of hiding in matches.

Also, battlelog and Origin sucks....

BF2 and BC2 was better than BF3.(except the quality of the colours tho)

I got the best cs friends I knew to play dod because I wanted a change of pace. These guys were very good CS payers; (semicolon) my best gaming friends and they made a DoD team with me because they were such good gaming friends they did so. I'm forever grateful to sonik, seven, and luk. jimmy foogarellie and kanga, along with 1-oak and other friends were also great.

also: I feel like dsnipes wouldn't let me sleep at night if I didn't feel like I acknowledged Dan "scorch-" Schey, and how fat he is. And also Greg "chaos" Conlon. I really like Greg. I only kind of like Dan, but if you want to play DOTA2 with us, I really like him. Just please don't suck in a game where your Chicago servers don't rape our online relevency.

I think a big reason why DOTA and LOL are doing so well is because they were built with the competitive scene in mind. Games are built with the ability to have a commentator spot for streaming and buying tickets to watch tournament (or watch a cast on twitch) is brilliant for coming up with tournament money.

New games that want to have a competitive scene needs those at a minimum.

Miller` wrote:I think a big reason why DOTA and LOL are doing so well is because they were built with the competitive scene in mind. Games are built with the ability to have a commentator spot for streaming and buying tickets to watch tournament (or watch a cast on twitch) is brilliant for coming up with tournament money.

New games that want to have a competitive scene needs those at a minimum.

I can't agree more with your statement about the community of the DOTA2 community (I can't speak for LoL because if I weren't friends with Ron I wouldn't care for it), but I feel like it's the growing face of esports and I absolutely love it as a casual player/fan of the pros

Shootmania is awesome. I think FPS' are being pushed out of big competitive gaming (lol) because they're hardly spectator-friendly, unless you have a "last guy left" sort of situation that would pop up in Shootmania or CS. When watching a DotA game, you'll usually see all the decisive and impressive moments in the game because you can watch the big teamfights and get just as much as if you were watching an individual player.

But yeah, I really don't have as much fun playing other online shooters as I do with DoD, even in casual settings.

Also, DoD is based off the engine for the best game with the best movement engine ever, Half-Life.

Best game. If only Valve would stop breaking it on me.

For how broken it is, I agree with the movement engine. I feel like they try so hard to make movements as realistic and smooth as possible, but it just takes away from gameplay and just flat out fun. Same thing with DoD... The retarded ass things that happen in this game on a daily basis just make it more fun for to play.

I played the original tribes competitively as well as tribes 2, was in a top 5 clan at one point and it was a blast. Tribes: ascend suffers from the ftp and microtransaction model, too many weapons and suff can be bought for cash and then people who dont want to spend are left wanting. However atm for 40 bucks you can unlock EVERYTHING, competitive wise its all based on the team size the league uses and the skill ceiling in the game is really really high.


Natural selection 2 while not huge at the moment just had a really big sponsored tourney between us and euro and the finalists were flown to germany to compete. Alot of fun, i know mare/crog and eckman all play as well as marshall. I had a really good team in ns 1 with jdub, eisen, frikk, holeman and theory, still love the game

Scott with the big drunk posts coming through.

Shootmania is probably the most spectator-friendly team fps game ever because the competitive mode is 1v3 so you always have a natural focal point to spectate.

There are so many things about DoD's gameplay that make it the best team fps game. The competitive mode (domination) is just the most natural team/war-game mode... frag to control the map, get points for controlling the map. The weapon aim/recoil system offers very subtle balancing features... if they removed the damn cone of fire and used recoil and damage to balance the weapons instead, it would be a ridiculously good system. I mean, the beauty of the recoil system is that you can make a heavy a "short-medium range" weapon by forcing the player to use a high sensitivity to control the recoil and make their aim naturally less accurate at long range. You don't *need* a cone of fire to do that for you. The gun can shoot 100% straight if you balance the recoil and damage properly. The movement system where you can shoot while counter-strafing adds a huge skill ceiling to the game, but I really think the penalty for movement should be huge recoil (or delayed bolt) instead of randomness.

I liked counter-strike a lot, but I think DoD is a better game for the same reason that futbol > football. CS is a game of executing very specific plays. Experience plays a role later in rounds, but a lot of rounds are won and lost by flashbangs and headshots to start the round. DoD requires your team to have a strong overarching strategy and experience executing that strategy including map- and situation-specific tactics. The free-flowing nature of the game rewards teams where every player understands the game much more than cs where you need 1-2 strat/decision-makers who understand the game and 2-3 players who need to be able to just headshot. You don't win a map in dod on one round, you win it on hundreds (or thousands) of opportunities to make good decisions and nice shots.

i love day of defeat.
I think back to what the community was like in season 3-4, when i started playing (before certain teams and people showed up infected it), and I know there will never be such a thing again.
I have always wished someone would release a newer game with the same sort of teamplay and skill ceiling.

An1maL wrote: -dirty bomb: from the wolfenstein guys, this looks quite promising: https://www.youtube.com/watch?&v=zYvMOpV2Rjs , seems they're interested in keeping competitive balance, will be free to play I think. mostly objective based. expensive as hell to get in the closed alpha. movement looks a BIT slow, at least there's no ironsights

The approach these guys are taking in studying the class and map balances is really intriguing. Dave Johnston, maker of de_dust being involved makes me hopeful. Too bad alpha is $120. Definitely playing DirtyBomb when its released.

scorch- wrote: CS is a game of executing very specific plays. Experience plays a role later in rounds, but a lot of rounds are won and lost by flashbangs and headshots to start the round.

I don't often play cs 1.6, but when I do

I flash my teammates and myself in the beginning of every round.

An1maL wrote: -dirty bomb: from the wolfenstein guys, this looks quite promising: https://www.youtube.com/watch?&v=zYvMOpV2Rjs , seems they're interested in keeping competitive balance, will be free to play I think. mostly objective based. expensive as hell to get in the closed alpha. movement looks a BIT slow, at least there's no ironsights

Is it just me, or does this game look like a mix between CoD and Brink?

CraftyDus wrote: The approach these guys are taking in studying the class and map balances is really intriguing. Dave Johnston, maker of de_dust being involved makes me hopeful. Too bad alpha is $120. Definitely playing DirtyBomb when its released.

yeh I was really impressed with that. They should hopefully have great promotion & a good player base coming from their wolfenstein background. That kind of attention to map detail and game balance will help to retain players too. I hope they'll be equally concerned about leagues & events, I know wolfenstein had some massive tournaments back in the early 2000's in the days of 4kings etc. This one definitely looks like the most promising game for the future

scorch- wrote:Shootmania is probably the most spectator-friendly team fps game ever because the competitive mode is 1v3 so you always have a natural focal point to spectate.

Indeed but a simple 1v3 frag off doesn't seem to be tactically diverse enough to captivate people. Apparently they had some massive tournaments with 100k on the line and only managed 1000 concurrent viewers. Since it's ubisoft, not sure they can put that down to lack of publicity! Like you said, dod's flag capture system is the perfect game mode for inciting tactical play. Dirtybomb works around objectives though, which could be good too, I had a blast playing UT's assault mode

Not sure about anyone but prone driving for a capout still gets me excited

i like tribes ascend. I played tribes 1 back in the day also. It's really hard to get good at Tribes, but like whoever said, the free2play thing messes up a lot of shit. Otherwise it's a pretty good game. I'd play it more if I could run it properly

CS:GO is fun.

My issue is a lack of quality in newer games.

i'm really impressed by dirty bomb as well. I think the skill ceiling will be decent given that its mostly centered around map control and tactics. Looking at balance in maps, guns...etc. is critical.

I think the one major thing that separates DOD (and CS) is the element of recoil control. All the classes have downsides, whether in movement ability, recoil or visibility. Even small things, like slower movement and the gradual pause with the sniper rifle scoping in, help to balance that gun. And the combination of these factor forces strats and at least some variety of guns to be used. My impression with newer games is you do not have these same constraints that greatly affect gameplay and skill levels.

One downside is obviously the need to cater to casual gamers so there has to be a balance. (I remember in some of the reviews of CSGO ppl were freaking about having to actually control your guns recoil?!?!?). Maybe having different game modes based on difficulty - where recoil is increased and classes are limited - would be a good solution?? That way new gamers can get introduced and familiar with the game before turning away after getting rolled by more experienced players. They can gradually up their skill level mode - increasing recoil or other factors - to continue to challenge themselves. Having a matching system like DOTA (which CSGO tried) is also an option but this takes control away from the gamer, which I think is an added downside.

After seeing that video, a lack of realistic movement and recoil are my major concerns. If they add those elements I think they have a great opportunity to make a new FPS that has depth and requires a decent level of skill. That process of learning and improving is what appealed to me at least. I wanted to play a challenging game rather than one where I would get bored just running around and holding down the trigger. I think they have the potential to draw many competive FPS gamers.

Natural Selection 2 has been the only game, since DoD (and a couple other HL1 Mods), that I've actually gotten hooked on so to speak.

I've followed a few of the competitive tournaments over the past months, and I was actually surprised how much I enjoyed watching. I've been impressed with the competitive "scene" and the support from the developers is cool and encouraging. I was considering playing it competitively until I saw this post from Voldemort.

Anyways, from my perspective, the developers seemingly take advice well from actual players in the community. Which in turn means they frequently release patches fixing bugs, editing maps, balancing game play, and new features.

OK I'll remove NS2's dick from my mouth now.

Swiss wrote:Having a matching system like DOTA (which CSGO tried) is also an option but this takes control away from the gamer, which I think is an added downside.

I've only had CSGO for around a week, but the match making is about the only thing I like in the game. I like that I can round up 4 friends and pug against 5 random idiots. Although, Dr. Andy Sheen (PhD in cheating instincts and author of "Behavioral cues my child may be cheating at online video games") warns me a lot of people cheat in the higher ranks of the system. And God knows I always trust FuckTruck36 because last time I ignored his advice I ended up with a finger in my butt, and I didn't care for that.

Swiss wrote:That way new gamers can get introduced and familiar with the game before turning away after getting rolled by more experienced players.

Back in my day, getting rolled by more experienced players is how we got familiar with the game, uphill both ways in the snow.

I've gotten the shit kicked out of me during my time in this game. Nobody likes a quitter.

twist wrote:

Swiss wrote:That way new gamers can get introduced and familiar with the game before turning away after getting rolled by more experienced players.

Back in my day, getting rolled by more experienced players is how we got familiar with the game, uphill both ways in the snow.

I've gotten the shit kicked out of me during my time in this game. Nobody likes a quitter.

I was exactly the same way but I would say the vast majority of casual gamers don't feel the same, at least starting out. That's why I was thinking having a system where new players could decide on difficulty level would be good (similar to many games). If ppl wanted to start out with a challenge they could (as opposed to CSGO)

Also just want to say that I've been extremely impressed with how they've handled DOTA. I rarely play but still enjoy watching streams with my roomies who play all the time.

Stick with the classics bro

milo wrote:I play DoD 'cause most of my online mates play it. CS:GO is alright to play with your mates and stuff, but it's kinda shite for competitive play.

You cant even play cs:go



nlk?

TF2 would be fun actually. Havent tried a single clan match but at least publics are quite fun.
anyway i guess the best days of tf2 are passed already and the best teams have stopped playing a while ago.

<- boss hela/scout

Wow kept me away from other games for a long time lol ... now after 7 years break, dod still feels the best fps game i've played so far. badly out of touch tho.

What has really kept me off new games is the movement engines. I can't play any source game for more than a minute without acid reflux. Precise and responsive movement is what has given Quake and all its derivatives, including half life, their staying power.

AAA game developers in the current era are significantly less interested in creating a title that is balanced and well suited for high-level competitive play than they are in making dump trucks full of cash.

I find the success of LOL very troubling because the game is so outrageously successful not because it's a great esports title, but because it's so simplified, dumbed down, and accessible. The skill curve is almost non-existent, in that once you figure out how the game works, it's just a matter of repetition. Sure, there is some variance in strategy and there is some "skill" in the same way that there is in WoW pvping, but the success of LOL is not because it's a superior esports title, but because it's so accessible that it doesn't matter.

SC2 suffers in the accessibility department where LOL does not, which is why SC2 isn't as popular as LOL is at the moment. The skill curve in SC2 is absolutely brutal. Where as any pube-stash basement troll in a flyover state can become a LOL star on twitch and earn a comfortable living just from streaming, it takes an incredibly dedicated 15 year old Korean kid willing to lock into SC2 for 18 hours a day to be successful.

DoD is interesting just because it's a great competitive experience, but totally by accident. The result that came from the development of DoD wasn't because the development team was trying to create competitive esports focused shooter (like they are attempting with shootmania), but by a combination of what they were trying to create and the technology that was available to them at the time. They were trying to create a casual and accessible nostalgic WW2 experience, or in other words, they were trying to create Call of Duty. But because of how the GoldSource engine is designed (the player movement is really key), we got a gem of an esports title by total accident. But, that's why you've got a helper dog and bar-pods. This game wasn't designed for us, it just serves our purposes by total accident and coincidence of the technologies available at the time.

In the end, it comes down to money. It costs a lot of money to develop and market AAA titles, and developers (and more often their publishers/owners) are far more interested in making a lot of money than they are in creating a competitively balanced game.

It's also worth mentioning that part of the problem is that MOST game developers (programmers, engineers, designers, producers, etc) are NOT COMPETITIVE GAMERS. They are more often than not the same pub nubs that absolutely annoy the shit out of us. They don't see games in the same perspective that we do, and until enough competitive minded gamers become game developers in critical mass, this will always be a problem.

Yep. That's why I'm surprised the developers of dirty bomb have this primarily in mind at this stage. I don't know whether it is because we are seeing more and more success in esports or whether its just an anomaly

Side question that hopefully someone can answer for me: Does competitive serious eSports even exist outside of like Starcraft anymore? I thought CPL and WSVG and whatever else died, are there new companies?

LoL being popular annoys the shit out of me. If there was ever an ultimatum placed on the human species to get rid of 2 million people, I'd pick the ones that have played ranked LoL games first.

@Hudson
Riot and Valve both host million dollar tourneys for LoL and Dota2, respectively. LoL has year-round leagues sponsored by Riot (LCS).

I don't think there are real professional esports outside of sc2, LoL, and DotA though.

MLG is one of the biggest tournament hosters (online and LAN) i think. they always put up quite big prizes for a fair few games, not just sc2. list: http://www.majorleaguegaming.com/seasons. they're the guys who bought gotfrag i guess

and dreamhack of course (euro lan) http://www.dreamhack.se/dhs13/2013/04/0 ... urnaments/ quite a lot of games/prizes there

scorch- wrote:LoL being popular annoys the shit out of me. If there was ever an ultimatum placed on the human species to get rid of 2 million people, I'd pick the ones that have played ranked LoL games first.

@Hudson
Riot and Valve both host million dollar tourneys for LoL and Dota2, respectively. LoL has year-round leagues sponsored by Riot (LCS).

I don't think there are real professional esports outside of sc2, LoL, and DotA though.

Quake, CS, and fighting games are probably the only other esports around, but definitely not as big as the others.

The good thing about LOL is that it should be a decent entry point into the more skill driven games like HoN and DotA. It's way easier and once you have some of those concepts you can maybe expand on them. It's a similar idea to the whole separate difficulty thing, except the easy mode is trying to eat the hard mode alive.

LoL's success is frustrating, but understandable. Anytime I've played it, it's felt so small and barebones. It's like DotA made into a Facebook game.

I got into DOD about 4-5 years ago now and still like it

but recently have gotten into World of Tanks

it is fun but also tactical as well with your tanks your positioning for the kill shot or damage shot

capturing the flag

some times there are competitions that happen every Friday going against some of the WGNA admins were gold is awarded

check it out some time

http://www.worldoftanks.com

Joel, how good are you at dota/hon? We could always use a 50% lower chance of playing with a retard/troll.

Can't one of you nerds on these forums just learn to code and make us the game we want? You'll be fucking rich in the end, just do it already!

Seriously though, DoD should have been remade by an outside group and renamed about 7 years ago.. then video games today would have been so much better.

jizziztszsz wrote:TF2 would be fun actually. Havent tried a single clan match but at least publics are quite fun.
anyway i guess the best days of tf2 are passed already and the best teams have stopped playing a while ago.

<- boss hela/scout

Wow kept me away from other games for a long time lol ... now after 7 years break, dod still feels the best fps game i've played so far. badly out of touch tho.

Are you the euro rifle from back in the day? Or just someone else with a similarly homosex name?

moosh wrote:

scorch- wrote:Joel, how good are you at dota/hon? We could always use a 50% lower chance of playing with a retard/troll.

If i didn't work 60 hours a week and saturdays id be all over this.

HOLD UP BRO IM SHEDDING A TEAR FOR LORD ADMIRAL NELSON

alex kirk wrote:

jizziztszsz wrote:TF2 would be fun actually. Havent tried a single clan match but at least publics are quite fun.
anyway i guess the best days of tf2 are passed already and the best teams have stopped playing a while ago.

<- boss hela/scout

Wow kept me away from other games for a long time lol ... now after 7 years break, dod still feels the best fps game i've played so far. badly out of touch tho.

Are you the euro rifle from back in the day? Or just someone else with a similarly homosex name?

I'm the same, the one and only with homosex name

scorch- wrote:Joel, how good are you at dota/hon? We could always use a 50% lower chance of playing with a retard/troll.

I think I'm fairly decent. I mostly solo queue so I'm no HoN expert, but I can click bad guys pretty well. Good enough to hate pretty much everyone I've ever been matchmade with.

joeledmunds wrote:

scorch- wrote:Joel, how good are you at dota/hon? We could always use a 50% lower chance of playing with a retard/troll.

I think I'm fairly decent. I mostly solo queue so I'm no HoN expert, but I can click bad guys pretty well. Good enough to hate pretty much everyone I've ever been matchmade with.

I think craig is looking for some people to play with iirc.

Who wants to play dota2 in the TI3 open qualification tournament?

jizziztszsz wrote:

alex kirk wrote:

jizziztszsz wrote:TF2 would be fun actually. Havent tried a single clan match but at least publics are quite fun.
anyway i guess the best days of tf2 are passed already and the best teams have stopped playing a while ago.

<- boss hela/scout

Wow kept me away from other games for a long time lol ... now after 7 years break, dod still feels the best fps game i've played so far. badly out of touch tho.

Are you the euro rifle from back in the day? Or just someone else with a similarly homosex name?

I'm the same, the one and only with homosex name

Nice! I totally used to touch myself to Good Times in dw. Just...so you know...

i think league is successful not because of the game but because riot is the apple of pc gaming. they advertise very well and they release alot of media/updates. they maintain tournament with the money people put into the game as well as the abondance of sponsorship money. the company has full control on the game and its direction. even if its a subpar game in comparison to its predecessor riot is dedicated to its success.
all the fps games of the past were corrupted when the money got good and the games suffered and communities died and eventually lans stopped and leagues closed down.

The only reason cs and dod are dead is because of the graphics. If they made the game exactly the same with better graphics we would be in a world of FPS madness.

-The BIGGEST blow to fps games was WOW, hands down. Even when I was at Winter CPL 04 the amount of people there playing that game scared me. It was a growing infection

-As I said before no video game sponsor will want to sponsor a game where a graphics card from 5 years ago will give it amazing results.

-Look at RTS, Fifa, LOL, DoTA, fighting games. None of the games have really changed from one another (I could be wrong, I never really played DOTA and LOL, but they both look the same) Their movements are the same but with pretty graphics and more explosions but there isn't a big difference between SC 1 and SC 2. They kept things the way they like em. These new graphics didn't involve CRAZY PHYSICS which is what the source engine tried to do. And now all the movements just SUCK because of it

-AGE GAP; lets face we are old and the way 13 year olds play now is different when we were 13 year olds. When I was 13 I had a different expectation from video games. I didn't want to jump out of planes or fly in a car or have a vast amount of weapons. which brings me to

-Simplify fps game Don't do these level ups and power ups and downs because when you try to show someone a more competitive aspect of the game people call it gay. Look at COD, more people were excited about being a 5 star fag or whatever they are.


TL,DR New age of gamers, bring the fps back to something simple to be awesome. Keep old movments

joeledmunds wrote:

scorch- wrote:Joel, how good are you at dota/hon? We could always use a 50% lower chance of playing with a retard/troll.

I think I'm fairly decent. I mostly solo queue so I'm no HoN expert, but I can click bad guys pretty well. Good enough to hate pretty much everyone I've ever been matchmade with.

There is a group of 5 or 6 that play dota pretty much every afternoon in the xm vent. Downside is you have to deal with kicken raging and me feeding.

CODE and Gabe Newell killed FPS. I don't play DOTA or League but they seem to have taken over the entire industry.

The FPS games I've enjoyed the most since being jaded as fuck from Half Life/CS/DOD are Battle Field:Heros and S.T.A.L.K.E.R


http://www.battlefieldheroes.com/en/createHeroSignup?
I don't know if anyone plays this game anymore, but it was enjoyable for the few weeks I played.


Dirty Bomb looks like a clusterfuck of Counter Strike(some game modes, recoil, hip firing being okay) with Team Fortress 2(some game modes), L4D(aesthetics and game speed), and Battle Field(class roles).

Overall, it looks like a decent HL2 mod... but it's pre-alpha video. Looked pretty decent.

Watched the video again and it looks like it takes a lot of shots to kill... hopefully there is a hardcore or competitive mode.