by scorch- » Tue Oct 29, 2013 3:23 pm
motive wrote:scorch- wrote:motive wrote:
I honestly think we should just do it in the server when we're about to play. Worked well enough for the Quake duel tourneys I've participated in. I mean, you don't find out what heroes your opponent is banning/picking in Dota 2 until you're about to play either.
I mean, selfish me, I want to actually practice the maps that will be played with the 6 people that will be playing in the match. This is DoD in 2013 and I'm not on gskill or thunder... we haven't scrimmed any of the available maps with the 6 people who will be in the server on Sunday and there's no way we're going to get to play all the maps between now and then even if we wanted to.
I don't see how that's relevant to what I was saying, in fact I think you're reinforcing my point. If you need to bootcamp select maps to win then banning/picking is even more of a strategic process for both teams involved. It introduces a bit of metagame into DoD where there wasn't any before.
Again, I have to single out Dota 2 captains mode as the ideal setup here. There are a _lot_ of tactical decisions being made there and it provides a _lot_ of the initial excitement and discussion for the upcoming match. Honestly I think even the map pool should be bigger. Suppose THUNDER spends all week no-lifing Aleutian or some shit and drops that bomb on us when we're expecting a less silly map. That might be interesting.
I don't think there's anything interesting about practicing and playing a dumb map and coming up with gimmick strats. I remember thunder coming up with some shitty gimmick rush strategy on lennon for a LAN tournament back when no one played that map and beating us for 2 spawns until we figured it out, then they held out and won by like half a cap. It's objectively bad for determining the better team and it's not fun for spectators to watch.
I think that in a world where all the teams scrim all the maps, then the ban/pick idea would be a good way to play a finals because all the teams would have practiced on all the maps and it would really show who the better team was based on their strategies and tactics. Reality is that even if I wanted to scrim aleutian, the only team that would play us is that hypothetical thunder nerd squad and if you banned out that map in your matchup then there would be no one to practice against. Same goes for like 50% of the map pool. Then the finals becomes "who came up with the better gimmicks on shitty maps that no one plays."
[quote="motive"][quote="scorch-"][quote="motive"]
I honestly think we should just do it in the server when we're about to play. Worked well enough for the Quake duel tourneys I've participated in. I mean, you don't find out what heroes your opponent is banning/picking in Dota 2 until you're about to play either.[/quote]
I mean, selfish me, I want to actually practice the maps that will be played with the 6 people that will be playing in the match. This is DoD in 2013 and I'm not on gskill or thunder... we haven't scrimmed any of the available maps with the 6 people who will be in the server on Sunday and there's no way we're going to get to play all the maps between now and then even if we wanted to.[/quote]
I don't see how that's relevant to what I was saying, in fact I think you're reinforcing my point. If you need to bootcamp select maps to win then banning/picking is even more of a strategic process for both teams involved. It introduces a bit of metagame into DoD where there wasn't any before.
Again, I have to single out Dota 2 captains mode as the ideal setup here. There are a _lot_ of tactical decisions being made there and it provides a _lot_ of the initial excitement and discussion for the upcoming match. Honestly I think even the map pool should be bigger. Suppose THUNDER spends all week no-lifing Aleutian or some shit and drops that bomb on us when we're expecting a less silly map. That might be interesting.[/quote]
I don't think there's anything interesting about practicing and playing a dumb map and coming up with gimmick strats. I remember thunder coming up with some shitty gimmick rush strategy on lennon for a LAN tournament back when no one played that map and beating us for 2 spawns until we figured it out, then they held out and won by like half a cap. It's objectively bad for determining the better team and it's not fun for spectators to watch.
I think that in a world where all the teams scrim all the maps, then the ban/pick idea would be a good way to play a finals because all the teams would have practiced on all the maps and it would really show who the better team was based on their strategies and tactics. Reality is that even if I wanted to scrim aleutian, the only team that would play us is that hypothetical thunder nerd squad and if you banned out that map in your matchup then there would be no one to practice against. Same goes for like 50% of the map pool. Then the finals becomes "who came up with the better gimmicks on shitty maps that no one plays."