the Scott "Razor Ramon" Hall story

[JaGGoNdd]

just caught this on ESPN E:60... im sure a lot of you guys were fans of the WWF growing up and what not, and one of my personal favorite wrestlers for a while was razor ramon. this was a piece espn did on what life was like for him then and what it is now. i know that the immediate response from a lot of you will be "well he put himself in this position now, he deserves what he's got, etc" but as someone who has battled some demons in my time, who knows people who have battled them and lost that fight, and just as a human being with a fuckin heart in general, i couldn't help but tear up a little bit at this story. absolutely horrible to see where this man came from and what he is now. the adage, the bigger they are the harder they fall, etc, describes this best. i truly hope that he can overcome his vices and stay on this earth longer to contribute some more good to the world and be a father and role model to his son who, ironically enough, is on the path to becoming a professional wrestler. here's the link - http://espn.go.com/video/category?id=3060647

im legitimately just in shock at what he went through and ended up being when all was said and done. it's essentially the real life version of the movie "The Wrestler", as one of the reporters kind of points out in the intro. ridiculous stuff.

[k4b00m]

always enjoy watching stories of ppl overcoming shit. dont have time to watch it right now, i'll look at it tomorrow.

[Sears]

The patrick willis story was pretty cool too

[Airnick15]

Seems that he checked back into rehab, hopefully he turns shit around for his kids' sake. However, I have a hard time feeling that bad for him in a world where plenty of people suffer from things they have no control over.

[`NG]

Always with that fucking toothpick

[JaGGoNdd]

nick, hearing that same response from everyone in regards to a single man's struggles is just them trying to seem kind and gentle-hearted and it soooo old and played out lol "what about the starving children in uganda!" yeah we all know, there are hundreds of millions of people suffering all over the world. id rather feel bad for one at a time than worry myself over that many people. just sayin mang.

im about to check out the patrick willis story eric, then the doc gooden one (which i caught a clip of the other day, where he talked about during the world series parade after he and the mets won in 86 he was in the projects in new york in a drug dealers house gettin high as fuck watchin the parade on tv. fuckin ridic)

[JaGGoNdd]

oh wow yeah the patrick willis one is great too. that guy is a class act and a hell of a football player. just goes to show you both sides of how people can deal with adversity between what he went through and handled it and how scott hall did

[Airnick15]

Learn to read, my comment was about people facing problems out of their control, not the fact that it was one person. Tons of people in this country qualify, I'm not playing the starving African children card. But yeah, them too!

[JaGGoNdd]

it was early, i try to not read anything closely unless it's after noon. lol

[JaGGoNdd]

all i read was "in a world where plenty of people suffer." hahaha instantly turned my brain into the "oh god here we go with how many starving kids there are in the world"

[Airnick15]

DON'T YOU CARE ABOUT THE KIDS?

[kirk]

I'm about ready to post a novel on this thread to drop some knowledge bawms on all ya'll. But I'm resisting.

[Sears]

I'm about ready to post a novel on this thread to drop some knowledge bawms on all ya'll. But I'm resisting.

[kirk]

I'm about ready to post a novel on this thread to drop some knowledge bawms on all ya'll. But I'm resisting.

[Swiss]

I'm about ready to post a novel on this thread to drop some knowledge bawms on all ya'll. But I'm resisting.

[kirk]

Aight check it, it's like dis:

@Nick - It's very well possible that the suffering of those in third world countries are not as bad as this fellow's in terms of how the individual perceives said suffering. New research (see Youtube posted below) theorizes we have two kinds of happiness: synthetic and natural. Synthetic is the happiness that arises when we don't get what we want (and had no say/choice in the matter). Natural happiness is the happiness that arises when we get what we want. So in the case of those in third world countries - they have no say in the matter, yet many of them are extremely happy with life. Third world countries are not filled with depressed people. Our brains can synthesize happiness. In the case of Hall here, he does have options in life - he COULD theoretically pursue different lifestyle choices, but he does not. Thus, dissonance arises.

None of this, what so ever, means we should ever stop caring about third world countries nor doing what we can to deliver basic necessities of life to those who do not have them.

If you want your mind blown, just see this (20 minutes):

[youtube]LTO_dZUvbJA[/youtube]

@Corey - Compassion is not limited. You are able to sympathize with Hall along with the millions of children going to bed hungry tonight. You don't have to fixate on one or the other. The second you choose to ignore compassion or care for others is the second you stop acting in a way that improves the state of the world.

If you aren't doing something that helps those starving children in Uganda, or wherever, then you're not in a position to complain when others bring it up. No presumptions; simply stating!

Now, speaking of starving children, who wants to talk Peter Singer and understand why everyone here is selfish and immoral?

[CharlieGiteau]

That's a crazy deep post and all, but hell, we need to take care of our own before taking care of some third world country...but back on topic, people are going through this daily; they just happen to be in the spotlight and actually shed some light on real world problems that most people ignore or don't know about. I remember when all these movie stars and crap started coming out that they were bi-polar, only to show the world it's a real disease that can affect lives in very negative manners if not handled properly. Prior to that, it was almost like people who were afflicted by this disease were outcasts...

[JaGGoNdd]

@Alex you're really getting too deep into this, I understand what you're saying but am choosing not to get into a debate over the ethics of this matter. I was simply sharing something that I stumbled upon on the internet and thought people might find interesting, not attempting to start a debate over whether a single man's plight is more or less tragic than that of millions of others (obvious answer there). Both situations I spoke of are indescribably unfortunate and have their own reasons for being so. I am well aware that I am not in the position to criticize anyone for anything of that matter, I was simply throwing an "in before" statement out there in the original post and thus cringed at first glance when I saw Nick's post, although at second glance, it turned out I had simply misread what he was saying. Again, I am not engaging in a debate with you. That would be an intellectual death wish on my part.

/concede thread to Alex Kirk.

[Sears]

That's a crazy deep post and all, but hell, we need to take care of our own before taking care of some third world country...but back on topic, people are going through this daily; they just happen to be in the spotlight and actually shed some light on real world problems that most people ignore or don't know about. I remember when all these movie stars and crap started coming out that they were bi-polar, only to show the world it's a real disease that can affect lives in very negative manners if not handled properly. Prior to that, it was almost like people who were afflicted by this disease were outcasts...

[kirk]

@Alex you're really getting too deep into this, I understand what you're saying but am choosing not to get into a debate over the ethics of this matter. I was simply sharing something that I stumbled upon on the internet and thought people might find interesting, not attempting to start a debate over whether a single man's plight is more or less tragic than that of millions of others (obvious answer there). Both situations I spoke of are indescribably unfortunate and have their own reasons for being so. I am well aware that I am not in the position to criticize anyone for anything of that matter, I was simply throwing an "in before" statement out there in the original post and thus cringed at first glance when I saw Nick's post, although at second glance, it turned out I had simply misread what he was saying. Again, I am not engaging in a debate with you. That would be an intellectual death wish on my part.

/concede thread to Alex Kirk.

Haha, I'm not looking to argue with you. I'm just trying to shed some personal insight. Cool your jets, Corey. COOL THEM.

That's a crazy deep post and all, but hell, we need to take care of our own before taking care of some third world country...

Why do you think we should take care of our own before taking care of a third world country? (It's a rhetorical question as I already know the answer, but I'd like to hear you give your thoughts.)

[Airnick15]

Alex went macronutrient on this thread.

[rydN]

[CharlieGiteau]

That's a crazy deep post and all, but hell, we need to take care of our own before taking care of some third world country...

Why do you think we should take care of our own before taking care of a third world country? (It's a rhetorical question as I already know the answer, but I'd like to hear you give your thoughts.)

Obviously a clash of morals and could end up a political debate : P I just have a problem with sending billions of dollars overseas when we clearly need it here; I'd rather my tax dollars go to help a hard working family that is in trouble due to one of them getting sick and possibly losing their home than some third world country that's popping babies out at a ridiculous rate who aren't being held accountable. While it's their right to have kids, common sense says that if you don't have the food to feed one, why the hell are you having another, responsibility. Cliche, yes, but a decent example. Plus, I'll be waiting for the "the children can't help it" response. We can just agree to disagree.

[mg_]

Well, at least he hasn't shot the moon and gone all Chris Benoit on his kids.

[Jb_]

Jesus you nerds really know how to ruin a thread. Back at the topic on hand, I grew up watching Razor Ramone (Scott hall) and Shawn Micheals fighting for the ladder matches in wwf. Boy those were the good ole days. Its sad what happens to ALOT of wrestlers after there careers are over. You guys need to watch Jake the snake and Terry Funks documentaries if you havent already seen it. Those guys lived a hard life and back in the 90's before the ufc they were considered the tuff guys of the world and had all the bitches and coke they could handle. Jake the Snake is probably worse off the Scott Hall, but none of them do to well after the ring.

[`NG]

@Nick - It's very well possible that the suffering of those in third world countries are not as bad as this fellow's in terms of how the individual perceives said suffering. New research (see Youtube posted below) theorizes we have two kinds of happiness: synthetic and natural. Synthetic is the happiness that arises when we don't get what we want (and had no say/choice in the matter). Natural happiness is the happiness that arises when we get what we want. So in the case of those in third world countries - they have no say in the matter, yet many of them are extremely happy with life. Third world countries are not filled with depressed people. Our brains can synthesize happiness. In the case of Hall here, he does have options in life - he COULD theoretically pursue different lifestyle choices, but he does not. Thus, dissonance arises.

I had a response all ready, but then I got high. I'll get back to you when I remember where I was going with it. Something about dependency variables and such.

[Swiss]

Jesus you nerds really know how to ruin a thread. Back at the topic on hand, I grew up watching Razor Ramone (Scott hall) and Shawn Micheals fighting for the ladder matches in wwf. Boy those were the good ole days. Its sad what happens to ALOT of wrestlers after there careers are over. You guys need to watch Jake the snake and Terry Funks documentaries if you havent already seen it. Those guys lived a hard life and back in the 90's before the ufc they were considered the tuff guys of the world and had all the bitches and coke they could handle. Jake the Snake is probably worse off the Scott Hall, but none of them do to well after the ring.

sorry......kirk let me know that the door was opened, i opened the door (admittedly gave him a light push), and kirk burst through it with a brief abstract (well summarized btw), a whiteboard for teaching purposes and a video lecture to go along with it. my bad.

(and alex, TED talks are awesome. almost didnt click on it for fear it was just some youtube video. specify next time)


great video btw. id seen several of those espn features, they do a great job with them. they did one with josh hamilton a few years ago, he has a very similar story. i think he bounced in and out of treatment and recovery several times but for the past few years hes back on track.

[kirk]

(and alex, TED talks are awesome. almost didnt click on it for fear it was just some youtube video. specify next time)

Way to doubt me.

I'll stop talking about interesting and thought-provoking things as to not confuse Josh Brown too much. Who still reads at a third grade level.

(Just kidding, Josh, as I know you won't interpret that remark as a joke!)

I had a response all ready, but then I got high. I'll get back to you when I remember where I was going with it. Something about dependency variables and such.

BRING IT ON.

Go see the study they did on patients with Korsakoff's. Shit will blow your fucking mind.

[`NG]

Go see the study they did on patients with Korsakoff's. Shit will blow your fucking mind.

SHIT BLEW MY MIND.


It's odd seeing the study of perceived satisfaction in Korsakoff patients put parallel to the Razor Ramon story. It's interesting how retrograde amnesia and some degree of confabulation worked to appease patients, while what appears to be something of the same condition becomes a soul sucking miasma for Razor. Granted, assessing a syndrome as such is flimsy; drug variables play a huge factor in the ability of the brain to produce and regulate serotonin (depending on the drugs involved). The idea that a prolonged thiamine deficiency is the cause adds to this as a limiting factor- Ramon may be physically unable to see anything besides shades of grey at this point.

On the flipside, it's amazing that he can continue to abuse drugs along with his prescription medication. He must be a human mixed drink by this point. Apparently he has a mega liver.

[kirk]

SHIT BLEW MY MIND.


It's odd seeing the study of perceived satisfaction in Korsakoff patients put parallel to the Razor Ramon story. It's interesting how retrograde amnesia and some degree of confabulation worked to appease patients, while what appears to be something of the same condition becomes a soul sucking miasma for Razor. Granted, assessing a syndrome as such is flimsy; drug variables play a huge factor in the ability of the brain to produce and regulate serotonin (depending on the drugs involved). The idea that a prolonged thiamine deficiency is the cause adds to this as a limiting factor- Ramon may be physically unable to see anything besides shades of grey at this point.

On the flipside, it's amazing that he can continue to abuse drugs along with his prescription medication. He must be a human mixed drink by this point. Apparently he has a mega liver.

It was anterograde amnesia, broski. I don't think Hall has the same condition, so much as he just keeps drinking/doing drugs.

Are you talking about thiamin deficiency in regards to Hall's condition, or Korsakoff's?

[`NG]

Korsakoffs.


And what are referring to as anterograde?

edit: I worded all that wrong, I meant the retrograde in reference to Hall. I've confused myself now.

[kirk]

Korsakoffs.

And what are referring to as anterograde?

edit: I worded all that wrong, I meant the retrograde in reference to Hall. I've confused myself now.

Korsakoff's deals more with anterograde amnesia than retrograde amnesia. I don't know about Hall - I didn't watch the whole video, but he didn't seem to have Korsakoff's in terms of alcohol-induced anterograde amnesia.

[`NG]

He did several events that he didn't remember

[kirk]

He did several events that he didn't remember

Korsakoff's induced anterograde amnesia is characterized by not being able to remember anything new. As in, won't be able to learn new human beings/friends/family members. I imagine his lacking memory was due to substance abuse rather than a chronic condition that exists outside of the immediate presence of substances.

[`NG]