Dear TPG

Polak · Post by **Polak** » Fri May 03, 2013 10:40 am

There are some of your rules that I find more than just questionable; some of them are simply unjust. I have learned from CAL/CPL and, more recently, ESEA that it's very common for a league and its philosophy to become corrupt. Do not take this as an accusation, because I'm simply stating my observations on some of your rules which are, in my opinion, unfair:

3.1 Participation in the League
TPG League reserves the right to remove teams from the league at the discretion of the league.

What do you mean by this? Does that mean that the administration can remove anyone based on personal reasons? What is the point of this rule?

6.2 Appeals
TPG staff reserves the right to reject a dispute appeal for any reason.

Really? Then why do you bring up appeals at all? Just tell people that they can't appeal instead of saying they can be rejected for ANY reason. An appeal should always be carefully reviewed, regardless of how long it takes. Admins have the responsibility to carefully review all appeals and to make thoughtful decisions instead of having the power to reject a dispute on any reason, whether it is valid or not. This is why admins are given the power to take important decisions--because they are expected to do so being mindful of the players that make up TPG.

7.7 Cheating Outside of TPG
Player demos submitted to TPG and reviewed are subject to the same rule restrictions as if played in a TPG match. This includes, but is not limited to, cheating, wall hacking, and map exploiting. Players will be held to the same violation standards as those listed previously.

Maybe you should reword this one, because in this case many players such as myself would definitely be suspended from TPG for reasons such as spec hoping in a 12man or picking up a spawned weapon. If people are caught outside cheating, I agree that they should be banned, but I insist that you need to reword this for the sake of clarity and fairness.

7.8 Distribution of Cheats
Distribution of cheats shall be considered the same as cheating and will carry the same punishment as cheating. This includes linking/hosting/sharing cheats in any public or private setting. Cheats are defined as any third party program, script, or SOUNDPACK that aids in the playing of Day of Defeat.

Cheats don't make a cheater; cheating makes a cheater. Seeing this rule is like seeing Gun Control laws on the internet. Software should be freely shared between us, because there are various uses for cheats and not all of them are cheating. For example, people can may want to use cheats to make movie effects comparable to those of Corey Marko.

7.6 Altering/Manipulating/Releasing Evidence
Any player disputed in a TPG match cannot release his/her demos to the public until a dispute has been closed by TPG. Any player who does, will be suspended for two weeks and if found cheating, this will be added on to your suspension.

Players cannot release private conversations/messages/e-mails between admins and players about TPG disputes to the public.

This leaves the players powerless to defend themselves in the case of an unfair dispute. This means that TPG admins have the power to bully, insult, harass, pass unfair judgements, etc. without the players being able to defend themselves publicly even if they face unfair accusations or judgement that may lead to year bans. The rules of TPG should be made for all of its players, not only as a guide to their behavior, but also as a protection from everyone, including the admins.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

Sound familiar? Even trials are open to the public and the evidence used is free for the public to see. I propose the same philosophy be adapted in our league. The evidence used to suspend players should be released to the public.

However, I add that people who submit timestamps or other evidence that someone is cheating to the TPG administration should have the right to request for his or her identity to remain anonymous.

[b2.4 ]Information & Evidence Request[/b]
Any information requested by TPG staff must be provided in its entirety within 24 hours of the request. Any demos or other evidence submitted to TPG League may be forwarded to other leagues for their consideration.

It is not fair that the TPG administration can break rule 7.6 without being penalized. Rules should be applied to all members of the community. They should not exclude those in power.

I understand the concept of, "If you don't like it, then leave", but please understand my concept of "I don't like it and here's why". I want an honest and fair league.

1.1 Introduction
TPG League is offered for Valve Software's game Day of Defeat 1.3. The goal of this league is to provide an environment that is both enjoyable to the new gamer, yet also provides a challenge for those players who have a substantial amount of league experience.

I find it humerous that there is no goal about providing a fair and honest league. I think I speak for many when I say that it is not enjoyable to be part of a dictatorship.

kirk · Post by **kirk** » Fri May 03, 2013 10:50 am

Polak wrote:I find it humerous that there is no goal about providing a fair and honest league. I think I speak for many when I say that it is not enjoyable to be part of a dictatorship.

Operational definition of "many" in this context = "Aimtek"

Furthermore, never has this image been more necessary...

defrag · Post by **defrag** » Fri May 03, 2013 10:52 am

INSERT DIDNT READ GIF HERE

347612863521476324 more GIFs to follow.

cassinoroyale · Post by **cassinoroyale** » Fri May 03, 2013 11:32 am

defrag wrote:INSERT DIDNT READ GIF HERE

OK, Sir. I'll start:

kirk · Post by **kirk** » Fri May 03, 2013 11:55 am

cassinoroyale wrote: OK, Sir. I'll start:

Jakimo · Post by **Jakimo** » Fri May 03, 2013 12:26 pm

lowcarb · Post by **lowcarb** » Fri May 03, 2013 1:04 pm

wintehs · Post by **wintehs** » Fri May 03, 2013 1:17 pm

Jakimo wrote:

stile · Post by **stile** » Fri May 03, 2013 1:27 pm

good points made, but all you'll get is people posting gifs.

wintehs · Post by **wintehs** » Fri May 03, 2013 1:31 pm

stile wrote:good points made, but all you'll get is people posting gifs.

I'm bored at work waiting for the last 30 mins to slowly pass

CharlieGiteau · Post by **CharlieGiteau** » Fri May 03, 2013 1:42 pm

Jakimo wrote:

Miller` · Post by **Miller`** » Fri May 03, 2013 1:43 pm

Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

ward · Post by **ward** » Fri May 03, 2013 2:30 pm

So you come back for 3 days and decide that you represent the majority of the competitive DoD community in saying that the league is bad and terrible and not fun at all to play? NEWS TO ME

kirk · Post by **kirk** » Fri May 03, 2013 2:38 pm

stile wrote:good points made, but all you'll get is people posting gifs.

Sears · Post by **Sears** » Fri May 03, 2013 3:44 pm

tugger · Post by **tugger** » Fri May 03, 2013 4:29 pm

stile wrote:good points made, but all you'll get is people posting gifs.

Post by **BoxeR** » Fri May 03, 2013 4:34 pm

tugger wrote:
stile wrote:good points made, but all you'll get is people posting gifs.

ward · Post by **ward** » Fri May 03, 2013 4:53 pm

Coincidence that the only ones agreeing are the ones who played with cheating idiots? MORE NEWS AT 11

stile · Post by **stile** » Fri May 03, 2013 5:22 pm

well........ yeah. People who played with "cheaters" are the ones that got fucked over the most by the ruleset. I'm not proclaiming every single person is wrongfully banned, but if anyone thinks that TPG has never done anything shady I'd say that person is bit out of touch with reality.

I realize as an admin this post makes it appear that TPG admins are just power hungry idiots who do whatever they want and that your intentions are less than hounourable, but the rules that Polak pointed out do give that opportunity.

There is all this talk about the "community," but out of all the teams/players how many actually give a shit about Aimtek? I'd say maybe 6-8 people have a hard on on keeping him from playing. Their friends follow suit and all of a sudden the "community" doesn't want him around? I hear more people calling him annoying than anything and what is weird is that some of these people just use his "cheating" as an excuse to kick him out of the league. The dude made a team that was scrim active, hosted 12mans, and talked a reasonable amount of shit for a healthy DoD player. For the record, I'm not proclaiming Aimtek was innocent. I'm just pointing out that this whole "community" is nothing but a bunch of tight butthole (WORKAHOLICS) nerds who can't stop holding grudges.

Cliffs:
I care way more about DoD than Milo.

stile · Post by **stile** » Fri May 03, 2013 5:25 pm

AM I SOME KIND OF PROFIT?????????

knockout · Post by **knockout** » Fri May 03, 2013 5:26 pm

knockout · Post by **knockout** » Fri May 03, 2013 5:33 pm

I'm just pointing out that this whole "community" is nothing but a bunch of tight butthole (WORKAHOLICS) nerds who can't stop holding grudges.

You meant loose butthole, but said tight butthole. Unforgivable.

ward · Post by **ward** » Fri May 03, 2013 5:42 pm

some of these people just use his "cheating" as an excuse to kick him out of the league.

When you don't follow the rules and cheat, you get banned. Not sure if serious or fucking retarded.

tugger · Post by **tugger** » Fri May 03, 2013 5:59 pm

ward wrote:
some of these people just use his "cheating" as an excuse to kick him out of the league.
When you don't follow the rules and cheat, you get banned. Not sure if serious or fucking retarded.

don't pull that shit ward please... you know more than half of invite would be banned if doing so.

How many of you cheated at CS? or in DoD only cause you thought the new guys thats been playing for less time than you(sorry we are not all beta players) is actually getting better at this game and you can't face it.

Let's be honest here, the community is getting smaller and smaller and if you are not in the "crew" you'll get either 1. get ban or 2.everyone will call cheat on you until you get 1.banned

The fact that aimtek was actually active but not liked and didn't just whine about everything got him banned im sure.

stile · Post by **stile** » Fri May 03, 2013 6:10 pm

knockout wrote:
I'm just pointing out that this whole "community" is nothing but a bunch of tight butthole (WORKAHOLICS) nerds who can't stop holding grudges.
You meant loose butthole, but said tight butthole. Unforgivable.

I'm ashamed.

Tin Bad · Post by **Tin Bad** » Fri May 03, 2013 6:25 pm

tugger wrote:
ward wrote:
some of these people just use his "cheating" as an excuse to kick him out of the league.
When you don't follow the rules and cheat, you get banned. Not sure if serious or fucking retarded.

don't pull that shit ward please... you know more than half of invite would be banned if doing so.

How many of you cheated at CS? or in DoD only cause you thought the new guys thats been playing for less time than you(sorry we are not all beta players) is actually getting better at this game and you can't face it.

Let's be honest here, the community is getting smaller and smaller and if you are not in the "crew" you'll get either 1. get ban or 2.everyone will call cheat on you until you get 1.banned

The fact that aimtek was actually active but not liked and didn't just whine about everything got him banned im sure.

1. Provide TPG with evidence that someone is cheating and they will be suspended for cheating..whether they r an invite player/TPG Admin/TPG AC Admin/Euro/Open player or w.e....If ur cheating ur cheating and will be suspended..

2. Aimtek was suspended for cheating because he was cheating in the evidence provided to us. Not because he's "french" or because people didn't like him..

I hear a lot of the "oh this player cheats why is he not banned yet" "oh he's protected" "he's cheating against me so im just gonna cheat back because no one will ban him" ... People just make these "assumptions" and no one ever turns in a demo/HLTV. TURN THEM IN. Even if it's Defiance cheating... I'll ban him!

tugger · Post by **tugger** » Fri May 03, 2013 6:38 pm

I just have a hard time believing he was cheating for the following reason:

1. He really wanted to play, he made his own team, hosted 12man, was looking for scrim, tried to get me online to scrim etc...
2. People don't like him cause he takes space, and is not scare of telling what he really think even though everyone will give him shit(see all the post he made).
3.Why cheat, when you are about to get back?
4. After seeing him play at a lan in st-tites( hosted by Carcajou a french canadian pub clan back in 2006) I can guarantee you that he doesn't need to cheat to be good, and he was just starting to get better at dod at this time.
5.The harrington demo, cause we all know its that one that got him banned, some people said he was cheating, some didn't, what makes you an expert? The fact that you applied on the AC position? mmmm

I dont know why but french canadian have a bad reputation but really... who got banned beside xormm(went to cpl afterward) and aimtek?

Ward, can you please make a list since you seem to know everything about DoD history.

joeledmunds · Post by **joeledmunds** » Fri May 03, 2013 6:39 pm

tugger wrote:I just have a hard time believing he was cheating for the following reason:

1. He really wanted to play, he made his own team, hosted 12man, was looking for scrim, tried to get me online to scrim etc...
2. People don't like him cause he takes space, and is not scare of telling what he really think even though everyone will give him shit(see all the post he made).
3.Why cheat, when you are about to get back?
4. After seeing him play at a lan in st-tites( hosted by Carcajou a french canadian pub clan back in 2006) I can guarantee you that he doesn't need to cheat to be good, and he was just starting to get better at dod at this time.
5.The harrington demo, cause we all know its that one that got him banned, some people said he was cheating, some didn't, what makes you an expert? The fact that you applied on the AC position? mmmm

I miss carcajou's pub.

Post by **BoxeR** » Fri May 03, 2013 6:57 pm

ward wrote:Coincidence that the only ones agreeing are the ones who played with cheating idiots? MORE NEWS AT 11

When have I ever played with "cheating idiots". I know you are trying to be funny on this forum, but I really don't know why you are saying this.

Jb_ · Post by **Jb_** » Fri May 03, 2013 7:08 pm

I think my ban is pretty fucking silly.

Sears · Post by **Sears** » Fri May 03, 2013 8:45 pm

tugger wrote:Let's be honest here, the community is getting smaller and smaller and if you are not in the "crew" you'll get either 1. get ban or 2.everyone will call cheat on you until you get 1.banned

The fact that aimtek was actually active but not liked and didn't just whine about everything got him banned im sure.

I'm sorry that you've had a rough time fitting in, but this perspective you have just isn't valid at all, and it's the same bullshit that all the #scrim_dod nerds were crying about circa 2005/2006.

This community has been growing steadily since Feb 2011, and as one of the few beta players that is still around, I can assure you that we couldn't care less how good you are at DoD in 2013. I would kill myself before spending as much time trying to be good at this video game as a grown up person as I did as a teenager in 2001. But that has nothing to do with why people don't like you (or aimtek). It's because you're douche bags to everyone yet somehow still feel entitled to be invited to the cool kids table.

You kinda reap what you sow in this commuminty. If you're ego is such that you need validation and need to feel as if you are "in the crew" because of you're 12 man performances, you're going to have a really bad time and always be swimming against a swift current while chasing that dragon. If you add on to that just being a total douche bag to everyone and constantly seeking attention via flaming on 1911 (aimtek), you're going to have a really, really bad time.

Be nice, make jokes, post funny gifs on 1911, and for god sakes don't take yourself or any of this shit too seriously, and you'd be surprised how "in the crew" you might end up being.

Or continue to be a douche bag, cry about no one thinking that you're cool and not getting the respect you deserve for being cal-i, and enjoy being the next generation of forever alone #scrim_dod idiots.

stile · Post by **stile** » Fri May 03, 2013 9:07 pm

Either way I think a little bit more transparency would be nice.

One thing I think would be nice is cutting bans down to a season or two. A year is a bit overkill.

Also, why is there TPG on Cinco de Mayo? Can we get some love for our south american friends?

Polak · Post by **Polak** » Fri May 03, 2013 9:09 pm

The point of this thread was to address rules that allow corruption.

I never said this league is not fun or the admins are corrupt. I don't understand why honesty and fairness is not a priority or part of the leagues formal introduction.

I believe the admins have the evidence to show that ryan marko, josh brown, and aimtek cheated.
What I don't understand is why the evidence does not need to be shared with the rest of this community and no matter what the condition is the admins have a final say.

Oh and one more thing...

stile · Post by **stile** » Fri May 03, 2013 9:10 pm

Polak wrote:The point of this thread was to address rules that allow corruption.

I never said this league is not fun or the admins are corrupt. I don't understand why honesty and fairness is not a priority or part of the leagues formal introduction.

I believe the admins have the evidence to show that ryan marko, josh brown, and aimtek cheated.
What I don't understand is why the evidence does not need to be shared with the rest of this community and no matter what the condition is the admins have a final say.

stile · Post by **stile** » Fri May 03, 2013 9:14 pm

moosh wrote:
stile wrote:Either way I think a little bit more transparency would be nice.

One thing I think would be nice is cutting bans down to a season or two. A year is a bit overkill.

Also, why is there TPG on Cinco de Mayo? Can we get some love for our south american friends?

What? You're a fucking idiot if you think Cinco De Mayo is a South American holiday.

Uhm. Have you looked at a map recently? Mexico is south of america. Pretty sure that makes it south america. Obviously your the fucking idiot.

acetamino · Post by **acetamino** » Fri May 03, 2013 9:19 pm

central america

crawtona · Post by **crawtona** » Fri May 03, 2013 9:32 pm

stile wrote:
moosh wrote:
stile wrote:Either way I think a little bit more transparency would be nice.

One thing I think would be nice is cutting bans down to a season or two. A year is a bit overkill.

Also, why is there TPG on Cinco de Mayo? Can we get some love for our south american friends?

What? You're a fucking idiot if you think Cinco De Mayo is a South American holiday.
Uhm. Have you looked at a map recently? Mexico is south of america. Pretty sure that makes it south america. Obviously your the fucking idiot.

I usually try to avoid Wikipedia as a reference, but seriously, this is just fucking basic shit:

North America occupies the northern portion of the landmass generally referred to as the New World, the Western Hemisphere, the Americas, or simply America (which, less commonly, is considered by some as a single continent[16][17][18] with North America a subcontinent).[19] North America's only land connection to South America is at the Isthmus of Panama. The continent is delimited on the southeast by most geographers at the Darién watershed along the Colombia-Panama border, placing all of Panama within North America.[20][21][22] Alternatively, less common views would end North America at the man-made Panama Canal[citation needed], and some geologists physiographically locate its southern limit at the Isthmus of Tehuantepec, Mexico, with Central America extending southeastward to South America from this point.[23] The Caribbean islands, or West Indies, are considered part of North America.[2]

Here's a quick hint: Panama is south of Mexico. I guess that makes it South Mexico.

stile · Post by **stile** » Fri May 03, 2013 9:34 pm

crawtona wrote:
stile wrote:
moosh wrote:
What? You're a fucking idiot if you think Cinco De Mayo is a South American holiday.
Uhm. Have you looked at a map recently? Mexico is south of america. Pretty sure that makes it south america. Obviously your the fucking idiot.
I usually try to avoid Wikipedia as a reference, but seriously, this is just fucking basic shit:

North America occupies the northern portion of the landmass generally referred to as the New World, the Western Hemisphere, the Americas, or simply America (which, less commonly, is considered by some as a single continent[16][17][18] with North America a subcontinent).[19] North America's only land connection to South America is at the Isthmus of Panama. The continent is delimited on the southeast by most geographers at the Darién watershed along the Colombia-Panama border, placing all of Panama within North America.[20][21][22] Alternatively, less common views would end North America at the man-made Panama Canal[citation needed], and some geologists physiographically locate its southern limit at the Isthmus of Tehuantepec, Mexico, with Central America extending southeastward to South America from this point.[23] The Caribbean islands, or West Indies, are considered part of North America.[2]

Here's a quick hint: Panama is south of Mexico. I guess that makes it South Mexico.

yeah, uhm wikipedia isn't a good source for information. i see a lot of problems in the information you quoted. get a real source please.

Sears · Post by **Sears** » Fri May 03, 2013 9:38 pm

This one time, when I was like 19, I got really drunk with a bunch of other idiot college freshman and sophomores, and since it was in the middle of nowhere Oregon, we went out and tried to tip over cows, but then all these sheep got super pissed at us and chased us into a creek, and then some crazy lady pulled out a shotgun and called the cops on us, so we ran like 5 miles through this muddy creek/swamp thing and didn't get back to our dorm until like 7:00 AM and I was still pretty drunk but I went to my 8:00 am GEO 101 class where I learned that Mexico was actually in North America.

ward · Post by **ward** » Fri May 03, 2013 10:04 pm

Polak wrote:The point of this thread was to address rules that allow corruption.

I never said this league is not fun or the admins are corrupt. I don't understand why honesty and fairness is not a priority or part of the leagues formal introduction.

I believe the admins have the evidence to show that ryan marko, josh brown, and aimtek cheated.
What I don't understand is why the evidence does not need to be shared with the rest of this community and no matter what the condition is the admins have a final say.

Oh and one more thing...

And you are implying that the current admins are corrupted. Why else would you bring up such stupidity. I'm waiting for the evidence of actual admin corruption bro. Panel of AC admins bans aimtek for CHEATING, all his butt buddy friends cry corruption. There's a reason we have a panel and evidence is kept private. There are too many retarded idiots who would suck his dick ten ways from sunday before admitting he was cheating. You've seen the cliquies in this game, you know how it is. I can't speak for anyone else, but I am not affiliated with jack shit in this game. I hate everyone equally. So if I vote you to be banned because you were cheating: sit down, shut the fuck up, and get banned idiot. See you in a year.

Sears · Post by **Sears** » Fri May 03, 2013 10:16 pm

moosh wrote:In college you learnt dat?

It was one of those classes with like 500 idiots in a big auditorium that everyone had to take. I remember that day specifically cause the instructor had little geography quizzes at the start of class, and on this day the first slide was "what continent is Mexio in?", and I was like lol dis nigga srs? (he was from Chad). There were plenty of people who didn't know the answer. 'Merica!

knockout · Post by **knockout** » Fri May 03, 2013 10:24 pm

moosh wrote:This turned into "I said something dumb, time to pretend i was trolling all along!".

It appears to have worked, regardless of what was originally said. I don't think anyone will bite as hard as Crawtona

Todo · Post by **Todo** » Fri May 03, 2013 10:32 pm

knockout wrote:
moosh wrote:This turned into "I said something dumb, time to pretend i was trolling all along!".
It appears to have worked, regardless of what was originally said. I don't think anyone will bite as hard as Crawtona

Probably took a lot of time to copy and paste from wikipedia. He must be kicking himself. An entire weekend, wasted.

Swiss · Post by **Swiss** » Fri May 03, 2013 10:44 pm

tugger wrote:Let's be honest here, the community is getting smaller and smaller and if you are not in the "crew" you'll get either 1. get ban or 2.everyone will call cheat on you until you get 1.banned

The fact that aimtek was actually active but not liked and didn't just whine about everything got him banned im sure.

i think one of the main reasons why aimtek is not "in the crew" and not liked is the fact that hes cheated, not just now but in the past. there are players who you associate with cheating because of their past actions and aimtek is one of them.

this really is not the case these days. i think in many ways the community has become more open to new players than its been in years. there are plenty of newer players who have become more active in the later/dead years of dod who have fit in and had a good time.

Polak wrote:What I don't understand is why the evidence does not need to be shared with the rest of this community and no matter what the condition is the admins have a final say.]

not sure why this has to keep being explained....if every time there is a ban and afterwards the demo is then released to the entire community, its going to open up a can of worms. all that this is going to lead to is second-guessing by people not on the AC team. Then bans (and the AC team) are going to be perpetually challenged after decisions are made. not a good way to run a league.