Re: ESL

Sears · Post by **Sears** » Thu Jun 30, 2011 7:12 pm

Alright people, here's the deal. In regard to Hellfire's LATELATELATE thread from earlier today (now locked):

In my humble opinion. In the event that we somehow meet their criteria, I think it would be a great thing if ESL picked up DoD. (Especially if TPG and DCN are wavering)

However, I also believe that it does a disservice to the community to pretend that we are a super active bunch that plays professionally.

That is simply not the case.

This site gets about 225 unique visitors a day. That's less than 10% of the amount of people who used to frequent CAL/gotfrag on a daily basis in our prime (05 - 06).

Most of us play an a strictly part-time basis, and don't spend a great deal of time/energy on the game anymore. Personally, I pub/12man once or twice a week while on the road because of my job.

This is a small, stagnant, and fragile community. There is nothing wrong with that, it just is what it is.

Pursuing another league at this time, especially one with more of a professional twist like ESL, while we are having a difficult time keeping TPG/DCN running, is risky business to say the least, and is something that should be done in a mindful manner.

Hellfire is a good guy, who obviously cares a lot about DoD (much more than most of us), and wants to see the community revive itself in some capacity. But, I feel he let his emotions get the better of him in this instance, and ended up making more of an ass out of himself than anything else, both to our community, and to those he contacted at ESL. (Mostly just by making shit up)

At this time, while I appreciate his efforts, I have asked him to not continue to represent 1911 or the community in any official capacity.

While I generally feel that y'all shouldn't be so damn sensitive, and openly be dicks to eachother on 1911 (we are who we are, and that's what 1911 is for) I think it's best that we now move on from this situation all with matching BFF necklaces.

I'm on board with the ESL idea, or in the event that TPG/DCN not work out, consolidating our efforts (and my efforts) into one league. But, only if we do so with realistic expectations.

Carry on now...

Wint0 · Post by **Wint0** » Thu Jun 30, 2011 7:13 pm

no. not until this community gets of steam friends and 1911(forums). no.

rehpyc · Post by **rehpyc** » Thu Jun 30, 2011 7:19 pm

http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/7786/winto.jpg NSFW

Created: Wednesday, ‎July ‎20, ‎2005

lol

rdk · Post by **rdk** » Thu Jun 30, 2011 7:21 pm

awesome^

kirk · Post by **kirk** » Thu Jun 30, 2011 7:26 pm

Good post.

All I can say is he's spoken to some extremely top level admins in the gaming community as a whole; people who were administrators and originators of GotFrag and other leagues. Is it unlikely to get picked up? Maybe. Especially in the summer where activity naturally declines a bit. But is it impossible? Far from it.

There's no harm in what he's doing. His initial presentation was not executed very well, but ultimately all he's doing is trying to provide options in the event that DCN/TPG don't work, or if the community decides they'd like to be associated with a league that is well-established in other games, that route could be possible.

Schmiggs · Post by **Schmiggs** » Thu Jun 30, 2011 7:43 pm

what the fuck is going on hellfire?? We can't even get 2 small leagues running consistently without forfeits.

kirk · Post by **kirk** » Thu Jun 30, 2011 7:59 pm

Schmiggs wrote:what the fuck is going on hellfire?? We can't even get 2 small leagues running consistently without forfeits.

To my knowledge, TPG doesn't get many FFs. Also from what I've heard, rwc doesn't have much in him when it comes to running a league. He can correct me if that's not the case, though.

People have quarrels with DCN given that it's one division and the website is meh. Just voicing concerns what others have said, but many people believe DCN won't last as Narc may be in the same boat as rwc. Especially since Narc is engaged!

I see Chad's actions as having zero harm and only posing benefits. For those of us who still enjoy playing this game once a week, a new league may be necessary in the foreseeable future.

Schmiggs · Post by **Schmiggs** » Thu Jun 30, 2011 8:01 pm

Hey if it works, what the hell. It's just a lot of effort into something not a lot of people put a lot of effort into.

kirk · Post by **kirk** » Thu Jun 30, 2011 8:06 pm

Schmiggs wrote:Hey if it works, what the hell. It's just a lot of effort into something not a lot of people put a lot of effort into.

That's my mentality. All it can do is help, so what the hell! Worst case scenario is nothing pans out, and nothing changes.

All good to me.

acetamino · Post by **acetamino** » Thu Jun 30, 2011 8:09 pm

one league, run through 1911 website if sears doesnt mind... tox as admin (lol!). no "dy_".

Jb_ · Post by **Jb_** » Thu Jun 30, 2011 8:11 pm

Schmiggs wrote:Hey if it works, what the hell. It's just a lot of effort into something not a lot of people put a lot of effort into.

thats the shitty dod attitude we are looking for! Alex does have a point. Yeh I didnt read his email post and it was kinda silly of him to tell such a fib, but I dont fault the guy for trying.

Rambizzle · Post by **Rambizzle** » Thu Jun 30, 2011 8:14 pm

Go grade some papers eric.

Airnick15 · Post by **Airnick15** » Thu Jun 30, 2011 8:37 pm

Go nuts

Rambizzle · Post by **Rambizzle** » Thu Jun 30, 2011 8:50 pm

bubbles is not amused

Ken · Post by **Ken** » Thu Jun 30, 2011 8:58 pm

I don't think anyone's hating on chad. I think the the point being made form before is he went about it the wrong way by telling lies.

If you could legit get another STABLE league up and running (I highly doubt ESL, for the mere fact that we need ALOT more of a community) it wouldn't be bad.

The main thing is we are jumping to the highest plateau without anything really to go on. We should actually try and get everyone on board and into the idea before we just start trying to be big boss man.

No need to try and create new things when what we have now needs more attention.

`NG · Post by **`NG** » Thu Jun 30, 2011 9:23 pm

The fucking fuck? I was under the impression that dod had reached the twilight years.

Rambizzle · Post by **Rambizzle** » Thu Jun 30, 2011 9:26 pm

Ken wrote:I don't think anyone's hating on chad. I think the the point being made form before is he went about it the wrong way by telling lies.

If you could legit get another STABLE league up and running (I highly doubt ESL, for the mere fact that we need ALOT more of a community) it wouldn't be bad.

The main thing is we are jumping to the highest plateau without anything really to go on. We should actually try and get everyone on board and into the idea before we just start trying to be big boss man.

No need to try and create new things when what we have now needs more attention.

nugz` · Post by **nugz`** » Thu Jun 30, 2011 11:19 pm

fuck this community.

cassinoroyale · Post by **cassinoroyale** » Fri Jul 01, 2011 8:04 am

Although hellfire pretty much screwed it up by the way he used to get ESL's attention I do support this idea.

I'm pretty sure that the ones that currently play enjoyed when they returned from retirement and saw leagues still running and 14 to 18 teams segregated in two divisions. Well, that happened because a few took the burden of waste precious time of their lives in order to sustain a organized league for some of you create stupid disputes and cheat your asses of.

The worst thing that for us will be a "NO" from them... and things will continue as always.

james- · Post by **james-** » Fri Jul 01, 2011 9:05 am

It's funny to watch how much the community has matures in the last 6 years or so.

Everyone (except those 12 year olds that just started playing) actually discusses things, instead of blind random flame trolling. Even Eric, who says that this website is for us to be dicks to each other, is being really level headed and chill in all of his comments.

WTFMANGZ

Jb_ · Post by **Jb_** » Fri Jul 01, 2011 10:51 am

Rambizzle wrote:
Ken wrote:I don't think anyone's hating on chad. I think the the point being made form before is he went about it the wrong way by telling lies.

If you could legit get another STABLE league up and running (I highly doubt ESL, for the mere fact that we need ALOT more of a community) it wouldn't be bad.

The main thing is we are jumping to the highest plateau without anything really to go on. We should actually try and get everyone on board and into the idea before we just start trying to be big boss man.

No need to try and create new things when what we have now needs more attention.

LOL!

Wint0 · Post by **Wint0** » Fri Jul 01, 2011 12:03 pm

rehpyc wrote:http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/7786/winto.jpg NSFW

Created: Wednesday, ‎July ‎20, ‎2005

lol

well played sean. at least i'm getting laid unlike half the nerds around here.

JaGGoNdd · Post by **JaGGoNdd** » Fri Jul 01, 2011 12:36 pm

im with eric and chad on this one

Wint0 · Post by **Wint0** » Fri Jul 01, 2011 2:50 pm

From the perspective of someone who doesn't play this game religiously like I used to and what some of you do now.

We had this kind of push for CEVO as well and we got what we wanted, paid for other people to play, and ultimately failed. Fast forward 4 years to now, this community is 10x smaller, more "part time" if you will, centered around one forum, no methods of communication outside of steam, players leaving and not being replaced, rampant cheating, and nothing but pugs(with said cheating) and dead public servers.

Seriously, what in this community is running well and isn't on life support.

I'm not saying I don't encourage the idea, I'm talking about the practicality of it.

Most of what has been argued is management of the division, which is completely understandable given past league failures. But what about participation and longevity? I can't see TPG DCN and ESL(three nights of dod. CAL couldn't even hold 2 matches a week in invite in the games prime) being able to hold attention and attendance for even 6-8 week seasons.

As someone else said, the worst they can say is "No" but they could also say yes, and if they did we're quite frankly screwed.

Sears · Post by **Sears** » Fri Jul 01, 2011 2:56 pm

Wint0 wrote:As someone else said, the worst they can say is "No" but they could also say yes, and if they did we're quite frankly screwed.

This has been my concern from the get go as well.

While people stepping up trying to get DCN going was well intentioned. I think our time would ultimately be better served if we poured all of our support into one league, be it TPG, DCN, ESL, or other.

rwc8thc · Post by **rwc8thc** » Fri Jul 01, 2011 3:50 pm

alex kirk wrote:To my knowledge, TPG doesn't get many FFs. Also from what I've heard, rwc doesn't have much in him when it comes to running a league. He can correct me if that's not the case, though.

It's not that I don't have it "in me" Alex, I'm happy to keep running TPG. I'm not really sure what you've heard that would cause you to make this statement.. and frankly if you have heard anything then I'm surprised because I've only told a few people. What it is, though, is that I'm in the midst of a major job transition. Within the next month or two I will be relocating about 400+ miles away to northern California to start a (somewhat) new line of work. I would likely have to start out in this position working a night shift of 2 - 10:30pm. So that schedule, plus all the time to get settled into a new place, might cause some issues next season.

Sears wrote:While people stepping up trying to get DCN going was well intentioned. I think our time would ultimately be better served if we poured all of our support into one league, be it TPG, DCN, ESL, or other.

Well hey, I'm happy to have their support at TPG. It's basically four guys running the whole show now. Narc's attention has increasingly been directed at DCN these past few months and I've been a little shorthanded. It hasn't caused much of a problem yet but I do see it becoming trouble next season. I have been actively trying to find someone new who would likely take my position as head admin at TPG, but I'm not sure who it would be.

Post by **Black Hawk** » Fri Jul 01, 2011 5:15 pm

Narc and ANOTHER Admin need to take over then. It's understandable and I don't think anyone thinks less of you, Life happens. But if this does happy I think we need to Vote on who is the next admin to help TPG
Along with Rwc and Narc

kirk · Post by **kirk** » Fri Jul 01, 2011 6:00 pm

rwc8thc wrote: It's not that I don't have it "in me" Alex, I'm happy to keep running TPG. I'm not really sure what you've heard that would cause you to make this statement.. and frankly if you have heard anything then I'm surprised because I've only told a few people. What it is, though, is that I'm in the midst of a major job transition. Within the next month or two I will be relocating about 400+ miles away to northern California to start a (somewhat) new line of work. I would likely have to start out in this position working a night shift of 2 - 10:30pm. So that schedule, plus all the time to get settled into a new place, might cause some issues next season.

Right, I didn't mean for it to sound like you couldn't handle it or didn't care or anything. Just meant it as you have more important life shit to focus on. Sorry if it sounded like anything but that. Definitely didn't mean for it to sound like you aren't capable.

Sears · Post by **Sears** » Fri Jul 01, 2011 6:10 pm

My biggest concern in all of this is that there are maybe about 150 or so "active" DoD players, and now we are talking about trying to support 3 different leagues.

We had a hard time doing that even when we had 3,000 active players.

Just seems like we are spreading ourselves too thin for such a small community.

Post by **Black Hawk** » Fri Jul 01, 2011 7:59 pm

I mean we still dont have EVERY tpg team in DCN either, Eagle died completely.
Maybe theres a way to extend the tpg "Dead" period to 4-5 weeks and during finals be TPG pre season.

joeledmunds · Post by **joeledmunds** » Fri Jul 01, 2011 8:12 pm

I think we need to do away with the misconception that having more leagues is going to make the community bigger. If you don't play DoD already, you aren't going to pick it up because tiny prizes are being offered. CEVO brought 0 new teams that actually stayed (unless you count gomi, not really sure when they started though sry ;o ). If we get another league it's just going to be another night for our small community to spread their efforts over. When I was 15 years old on STR, I had no problem spreading my night over 3 leagues (CAL, STA, and IGL), but these days I'm struggling to play most nights with 2 leagues, actually missing most of my matches. I wouldn't be joining another league; the time just isn't there for me, and I feel time could be better spent on improving what we already have.

Just my 2 cents.

Wint0 · Post by **Wint0** » Sat Jul 02, 2011 12:06 am

This community can't support 3,or even 2 leagues for that matter. Drop it, bench this idea. In the future this might pan out(unlikely but possible). But for right now this thread is better off locked and the idea forgotten. Lets keep TPG and possibly DCN alive before we even consider branching out to something that requires more of our time(since we all have lives right? LOL nerds).

kirk · Post by **kirk** » Sat Jul 02, 2011 3:06 am

Wint0 wrote:This community can't support 3,or even 2 leagues for that matter. Drop it, bench this idea. In the future this might pan out(unlikely but possible). But for right now this thread is better off locked and the idea forgotten. Lets keep TPG and possibly DCN alive before we even consider branching out to something that requires more of our time(since we all have lives right? LOL nerds).

The idea may be to simply mesh TPG into ESL; NOT run 2-3 leagues at one time.

scorch- · Post by **scorch-** » Sat Jul 02, 2011 4:38 am

Yesterday I saw you kissing tiny flowers
but all that lives is born to die
so I say to you that nothing really matters
all you do is stand and cry

scorch- · Post by **scorch-** » Sat Jul 02, 2011 4:47 am

[youtube]qkXV2LXBDqM[/youtube]

Rambizzle · Post by **Rambizzle** » Sat Jul 02, 2011 7:24 am

dan loves the BBC

scorch- · Post by **scorch-** » Sat Jul 02, 2011 7:26 am

Rambizzle wrote:dan loves the BBC

i'm impressed by how gigantic that youtube window is

Sears · Post by **Sears** » Sat Jul 02, 2011 7:58 am

scorch- wrote:
Rambizzle wrote:dan loves the BBC
i'm impressed by how gigantic that youtube window is

one size fits all bro

lerfooled · Post by **lerfooled** » Sat Jul 02, 2011 8:42 am

winto if you aren't part of the current community you have no idea what is going on. thanks though for perpetuating the same "dod is dead" bs that you have for the last 6 years i sure hope your fashion sense has grown because your attitude clearly hasn't.

yea dod isn't a large community but it surely isn't dead it's still actively played every day and the community is growing very slowly. i think there is a need for 2 leagues one on the weekend(tpg) and one during the week(esl). however playing on sunday and monday is a joke and i don't even enjoy doing that.

if we want a new league it needs to be run well and practically. we don't need to go all fire and brimstone. it needs to be on a wednesday/thursday so we don't have to play 2 days in a row which i agree the community can't support right now(although we have been doing a good job considering the shape of dcn right now).

if you want to sit up in your tower and talk shit that's fine just realize you look like an arrogant idiot.

Wint0 · Post by **Wint0** » Sat Jul 02, 2011 10:29 am

lerfooled wrote:winto if you aren't part of the current community you have no idea what is going on. thanks though for perpetuating the same "dod is dead" bs that you have for the last 6 years i sure hope your fashion sense has grown because your attitude clearly hasn't.

yea dod isn't a large community but it surely isn't dead it's still actively played every day and the community is growing very slowly. i think there is a need for 2 leagues one on the weekend(tpg) and one during the week(esl). however playing on sunday and monday is a joke and i don't even enjoy doing that.

if we want a new league it needs to be run well and practically. we don't need to go all fire and brimstone. it needs to be on a wednesday/thursday so we don't have to play 2 days in a row which i agree the community can't support right now(although we have been doing a good job considering the shape of dcn right now).

if you want to sit up in your tower and talk shit that's fine just realize you look like an arrogant idiot.

You're serious aren't you? Not once when I played did I spout that this game was dead. I was playing, winning money, and crushing idiots like you and enjoying it. I quit to actually enjoy life and get off the computer, not because the game had died.

Now, if you can honestly sit down and type that this game isn't dead you're fucking delusional. Personally, I still enjoy members of this community and appreciate all that has been done to keep it going. I've made countless friends through here and having 1911 as a place to bullshit with them is amazing.

I think its a fantastic idea to have a league with incentives to win, however I don't think its a fantastic idea to run 3 leagues. If you want to fold tpg into ESL then by all means have at it, IMO you're only killing the game further. Once again, you're talking about running a league, not the practicality of getting multiple teams to show up full of players who quite honestly don't have the time, or the care factor to play every week.

Like I said in my previous post, shelf the idea, it can't be done right now. Give it time.

lerfooled · Post by **lerfooled** » Sat Jul 02, 2011 11:15 am

and like i said fuck off

Sears · Post by **Sears** » Sat Jul 02, 2011 11:18 am

lololol

Schmiggs · Post by **Schmiggs** » Sat Jul 02, 2011 8:27 pm

like I am saying.

lolz

Wint0 · Post by **Wint0** » Sun Jul 03, 2011 8:07 am

jesus you're a fucking idiot...

GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOD LUCK.

what amazes me is somehow in a thread full of (civil)debating, YOU have forgotten that people have opinions. SORRY for expressing my concern for giving this community another bad reputation that it has so rightly earned with money/prize leagues.

YOU CARE SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO MUCH AND ARE SUCH AN ACTIVE PART OF THIS COMMUNITY.

p.s. Suck a dick idiot.

p.s.s. Please, give ESL a ring, explain to them that this community is completely stable, hasn't been running off 1911 for more than7 months, has 50 active teams and a player base in the 600s+ AT the same time, give rwc and narc the finger and tell them they suck at their jobs.

I did say this in my previous post then i edited it out. You're a fucking moron if you think i was around this community for 4 years after i quit. A LOT more important shit to do than argue with nerds like you about the future of a game that is 15 years old. THIS is why i left the community.

Airnick15 · Post by **Airnick15** » Sun Jul 03, 2011 8:29 am

This is what I love most about online gaming.

Narc · Post by **Narc** » Sun Jul 03, 2011 8:36 am

TPG is not going anywhere. The efforts of hellfire trying to get them to pick up dod is awesome and I support him for it. But on the other hand, I am not going anywhere. It is no secret how I feel about dcn and the site. I tried it as I thought it would be a good thing. I am starting to have a different thought. TPG has been around for a while. Rwc says he will be alittle busy. As I will talk to him tonight, I plan on telling him that I will take over TPG. I might not have winto as a supporter, but Im sure he doesnt speak for the entire community. I would rather leave DCN and keep TPG alive then see TPG get sidelined. RWC and I came into this together and I dont plan on leaving my post. I just thought it would have been worth a shot at another league. I am just not happy with some things when it comes to DCN. So I dont see any reason rwc will deny my offer. If he does then DCN will fall, and TPG will fall under another admin. Yes Im engaged but nothing will change. She knows I "dod" and supports me, I just dont play for 10 hours a day. So there is no reason to think I wont be around. I support TPG more then DCN and will leave DCN to keep TPG alive. That simple. I hope that the players that actually do respect me and feel that I am a fair admin will support me aswell. So dont worry about "if" tpg will survive, because it will. So if you support me taking over TPG, send RWC a messege in my support. LOL RWC and I been friends for 10 years, I see no reason for him to deny me TPG. I hope this helps ease your minds about our dod league activeness. Its not going to shut down. I guess I care to much to see that happen.

lerfooled · Post by **lerfooled** » Sun Jul 03, 2011 8:50 am

i'm not getting into a personal flame war winto sorry.

i agree with you narc and hope that dcn will just die after the season. after that esl can fill the void during the mid-week. it's got a great website and a really cool steam like friends thing that's made for league play(lobby's, scrim finders, team groups). anyways i hope on some level if you'd be willing to that you could be part of esl aswell.

linuslolz · Post by **linuslolz** » Sun Jul 03, 2011 9:49 am

Just get an client to TPG and its all good.

defiance · Post by **defiance** » Sun Jul 03, 2011 10:14 am

Narc4TPG

pinecone · Post by **pinecone** » Sun Jul 03, 2011 10:32 am