explain pls?

jigsawww · Post by **jigsawww** » Mon Apr 07, 2014 10:34 am

[quote="NoName"]Handle: NoName
Team: Royal Dod Army
Steam ID: STEAM_0:0:14813103
Start Date: Apr 07 2014
End Date: Apr 07 2015
Rule Violation: 7.4
Reason: Cheating Outside of TPG

I approve of this TPG good job on catching this cheater. Hopefully he can learn from his mistakes, and learn to play legit besides tracing people through walls.

defiance · Post by **defiance** » Mon Apr 07, 2014 10:48 am

l0ker wrote:
So, he cheated ? outside of TPG ? and you have the .dem, AC admin whatched it?

And we cant see them ? LOL, how can we trust that ?

You can't say that is fair sorry. That is uncredible

Tpg admins and ACs dedicate their time and effort without so much as a thank you from most players. There are how many people playing this game 200? You really think 200 people will agree on anything. All it will do is cause unrest/second guessing of everything they do. Most people don't even know what to look for so why does your opinion matter ?

cassinoroyale · Post by **cassinoroyale** » Mon Apr 07, 2014 10:49 am

I am not sure why people still spend their time replying to people who apparently don't know the drill. From the admin perspective, reviewing demos can give room to bias and subjective point of views, yes. However, when suspensions are given, they come from experienced players that can judge and give their opinions based on this very same experience and are unbiased. Though these decisions comes from conjectures and not from facts - unless the cheater send us screenshots with red boxes and invisible walls or cheat blatantly like josh brown in a 12man (lol just teasing you brosef) - it's not ONE single admin who dictate if a player will be suspended or not. It's a group of them. Usually ALL of them. And the decision is often unanimous. However, when there isn't a common sense in a particular instance, the time stamps are marked and they're saved for a subsequent moment. That's what we used to call a 'bulding a case'. Some players took many demo submissions to get eventually suspended (ceebz, ryanemo, etc). The process might need improvement, and that's fine. But it's all in the rules so if you register yourself as a player you automatically agree to follow the chart of rules displayed. I am sorry l0ker and NoName but the suspension will stay, there is nothing you can do it about but hold off of our feelings and if you are educated enough to request an appeal it may be granted. If that doesn't work tool, then go play like CSGO or some other game. That's pretty much it.

Spoiler: show

stabil · Post by **stabil** » Mon Apr 07, 2014 10:51 am

l0ker · Post by **l0ker** » Mon Apr 07, 2014 11:00 am

xD!

I get the HLTV, i will make my own opinion. I know that NoName will be Ban whatever we do. And i don't care.

joeledmunds · Post by **joeledmunds** » Mon Apr 07, 2014 11:30 am

I've heard from an unknown source that if you donate a bunch of money to Sears he'll unban you, give you top seed in the new CAL division, and make a fake LAN for you.

greetz · Post by **greetz** » Mon Apr 07, 2014 11:52 am

If you care so much about seeing the demo, join the anti cheat admin team.

l0ker · Post by **l0ker** » Mon Apr 07, 2014 12:03 pm

greetz wrote:If you care so much about seeing the demo, join the anti cheat admin team.

No, i just need to see on what they based their judgement to take my own decision about this player.

Now i will look and its ok. TY

Post by **TonyMontana** » Mon Apr 07, 2014 12:10 pm

You call me son of noob?

Don't you EVER call my father a noob

NoName · Post by **NoName** » Mon Apr 07, 2014 12:17 pm

there is just no basement, if they don't want to give the demo, it's because they have something to hide, nothing more.
One more time, France > all

l0ker · Post by **l0ker** » Mon Apr 07, 2014 12:20 pm

http://www.sendspace.com/file/1qibpv

here the .dem

GL HF ALL

jigsawww · Post by **jigsawww** » Mon Apr 07, 2014 12:22 pm

NoName wrote:there is just no basement, if they don't want to give the demo, it's because they have something to hide, nothing more.
One more time, France > all

§6.2 Appeals

Appeals may be requested by submitting a Support Ticket. The Head Admin, Senior Admin, and Head AC Admin will review the case and determine if the ruling was fair and just. If there was any negligence in the handling of the dispute, the dispute will be re-evaluated.

If you were suspended by a previous Head Admin/Head AC Admin for cheating, you may submit an appeal request to have the demos re-evaluated by the current Admin and AC Team. The suspension will then reflect the findings of the re-evaluation.

For suspensions that end during the next/upcoming TPG Season, the suspension length will be reduced so you may participate for the entire season IF the following conditions are met:

FIRST time offenders ONLY. For 2nd offense +, players will serve their entire suspension regardless if it ends during the next season.
The Original suspension length must be for at least 6 months long or longer and will not apply towards suspensions that are less than 6 months long.
The suspension is set to expire during the actual season (up to week 8) and not during or after the Playoffs.
Players who receive reduced suspensions will be on probation. The probation period will be until the day the suspension was to originally expire. Players that are on probation will receive double the ban/suspension length for the offense committed.

Probation definition is in rule 1.2

You may only appeal each suspension only once. Submitting multiple appeals for the same suspension will be automatically closed.

When submitting your appeal, please specify what kind of appeal you are making (IE Re-evaluation or Reduced sentence).

Tin Bad · Post by **Tin Bad** » Mon Apr 07, 2014 12:36 pm

Here you go.

Spoiler: show

srP you're next!

NoName · Post by **NoName** » Mon Apr 07, 2014 12:38 pm

WOW you took a demo from 1 year ago nice ! What's the point of banning me now? Next time will you took a demo from 3 years? There is nothing on that demo, just a shitty mix where I played against fucking noobs. GG TPG Admins, maybe you should try to learn more with this demo.

joeledmunds · Post by **joeledmunds** » Mon Apr 07, 2014 1:11 pm

The demo has been located, switching defense from "I don't cheat" to "But that was so long ago!"

NoName · Post by **NoName** » Mon Apr 07, 2014 1:51 pm

I keep saying that there is nothing right here but I don't care, think what you want, im just way better.

dogfire · Post by **dogfire** » Mon Apr 07, 2014 1:56 pm

NoName wrote:WOW you took a demo from 1 year ago nice ! What's the point of banning me now? Next time will you took a demo from 3 years? There is nothing on that demo, just a shitty mix where I played against fucking noobs. GG TPG Admins, maybe you should try to learn more with this demo.

Ok, this opens up the floor for you to explain why you shouldn't be banned.

.....this should be interesting

acetamino · Post by **acetamino** » Mon Apr 07, 2014 2:10 pm

So am I suppose to watch this 14 minute pop punk frag video? Damn you, Tin Bad.

acetamino · Post by **acetamino** » Mon Apr 07, 2014 2:10 pm

dbl post

NoName · Post by **NoName** » Mon Apr 07, 2014 2:16 pm

Where is the 2nd side? I wasn't cheating right? Bullshit

tenks · Post by **tenks** » Mon Apr 07, 2014 2:26 pm

An1maL wrote:Heh, guys, arguing with TonyMontana is like banging your head against a wall, except less productive.

No matter how stupid his posts are nor how rational your retort is, he will surpass himself every time

Fixed. Couldn't have said it better myself.

ward · Post by **ward** » Mon Apr 07, 2014 2:29 pm

I would really like someone to give an example of a time in the history of Day of Defeat where a frenchie team actually won a game in a competitive setting without somebody cheating. It's been so many years of blatant idiots being banned that I've lost track. Thanks again.

PS: You're still bad, and banned.

joeledmunds · Post by **joeledmunds** » Mon Apr 07, 2014 2:32 pm

"You only have one half. Why not look at the half I wasn't cheating in? Corruption.

l0ker · Post by **l0ker** » Mon Apr 07, 2014 3:44 pm

tugger · Post by **tugger** » Mon Apr 07, 2014 3:57 pm

ward wrote:I would really like someone to give an example of a time in the history of Day of Defeat where a frenchie team actually won a game in a competitive setting without somebody cheating. It's been so many years of blatant idiots being banned that I've lost track. Thanks again.

PS: You're still bad, and banned.

NHN/xds other than that, yes youre right

Mino · Post by **Mino** » Mon Apr 07, 2014 4:20 pm

KSPzsV2YN6Q

Did my deed for the day. See you tomorrow.

Post by **TonyMontana** » Mon Apr 07, 2014 5:17 pm

Cry all you want. You suck at this game, you cheat, and you're an idiot

So go lay some french whore with herpes and go back to eating flies and jumping on lillypads you stupid skilless cheating coward.

I guess some things never change

nik · Post by **nik** » Mon Apr 07, 2014 5:49 pm

tugger wrote:
ward wrote:I would really like someone to give an example of a time in the history of Day of Defeat where a frenchie team actually won a game in a competitive setting without somebody cheating. It's been so many years of blatant idiots being banned that I've lost track. Thanks again.

PS: You're still bad, and banned.

NHN/xds other than that, yes youre right

I believe sk-fr dominated in beta and even won some LAN's (if so they should have been legit). But I am not certain. It was just before I started playing. An1mal might know (not sure if he was allready in soe at the time).

Unless you ment "just french canadian."

mare · Post by **mare** » Mon Apr 07, 2014 7:13 pm

k4b00m · Post by **k4b00m** » Mon Apr 07, 2014 9:51 pm

In other news, CATS!!!!!!

mogers · Post by **mogers** » Mon Apr 07, 2014 9:51 pm

Why don't we just change the TPG rules and have the evidence (demo) released after a decision has been made? It would help keep things in check. Grow up.

nomis · Post by **nomis** » Mon Apr 07, 2014 9:55 pm

Beas · Post by **Beas** » Mon Apr 07, 2014 11:00 pm

Sears · Post by **Sears** » Tue Apr 08, 2014 1:49 am

Well, hrm.

It's interesting to me that this has become an issue in the current "dead" era of DoD.

I should preface whatever opinions I might have with the fact that I no longer play DoD, and haven't actively played through a season since 2006. So, my knowledge base as far as what's important to current players is limited to just observing the discussions on 1911 and the personal anecdotes that some of you have shared with me on the subject (both not really a good objective representation of the community as a whole).

But, I can say that the policy of not releasing cheater evidence publicly made a whole lot of sense for a league like CAL circa 2006 because there were 5,000 players and a much larger infrastructure of game and operations admins, as well as a whole team of Quality Control admins (lol) whose sole purpose was to review these kind of situations.

While I certainly understand why admins have continued the policy long after the death of CAL, there are a lot of valid arguments to be made for the case that it isn't an ideal policy for the community as it is today. And, the tried and true "we've always done it this way" isn't exactly the most logically sound argument to make in support for the continuation of the "no evidence" policy. This issue has come up enough in the last year or so that in my opinion it's worth re-evaluating and perhaps coming up with a new system that is more transparent, and better suited for the current community.

That being said, you can have whatever negative opinions or personal vendettas that you want in regards to past or present admins (we like to do that a lot in this community), but the reality is that this community has been incredibly lucky to have had as many well-intentioned people take the time to volunteer as admins as it has, and instances of real #absolutepower admin corruption, while they have occurred, have been few and far between in 14 years of DoD.

nik · Post by **nik** » Tue Apr 08, 2014 5:53 am

Let me post some random mostly unrelated stuff from my brief (I have only been active a few times) experienced with euro dod from 2008-2012 ish (before tpg.eu)

Few leagues no AC team. Enemy down had a AC team consisting of 0 competent admins. Later stin joined, but after this stin got the blame for every person he banned that wasn't 300% blatant and claled corrupt. Also because demo's were all over the place.

At some point in 2008-9 or so calli posted a video and demo of swav aka chrisey blatantly cheating on the community site at the time. Onepointthree.org. Even though this guy was obviously hacking. The entire .eu scene ridiculed calli and said blank was clean.

I have called some german noobs cheater and the german community still laughs at me and treats me like an idiot. You cannot publically win these kind of arguments vs an entire nation. Even though I still claim the idiots cheated and that that entire country is incompetent and I was right and they were obviously wrong.

But even when dealing with the .eu "elite" you end up in total chaos. When trying to get blank banned and discussing this with Blade and clan Arsenik (top french clan). Blade claimed it was just skill and that blank was better than an1mal. Saw nothing wrong with the evidence I showed him untill weeks after the ban. Arsenik on the other hand seemed to have no knowledge of cheats but in a different way. They thought everything was a cheat, but seemed to use the wrong arguments (did not convince me or saw something totally different in the stuff I gave them).

In short the entire scene is clueless. Making stuff public would result in more chaos. Although I doubt it would matter at this point. If the .eu scene was still active the tpg system would be perfect. If they got over the fact that they are just no longer used to people getting banned. Also if a person gets banned here it's 1 year? I believe .eu bans in the past lasted way longer. But people playing dod now wouldn't know this because they never dealt with any sort of AC.

An1maL · Post by **An1maL** » Tue Apr 08, 2014 6:19 am

Oh my, this thread took an unexpected turn into a serious discussion! In the past (when dod was big), euro bans didn't matter so much because generally each league had their own admins and they could only ban players from that league. For example blythe was banned from clanbase but he still played in cdodl, and reZ was banned from CAL but free to play elsewhere. These days if you're banned you're fucked because there's only one league, so we have to be 99% certain there's dodginess afoot. And that's fine because if you feel the need to hack in a 12 year old game with a tiny community, it's a new level of pathetic.

Even so I don't think demos should be released publicly....either we have faith in the anti-cheat team or we don't. If we do have faith in them, then we don't need to see the demos. If we don't have faith in them, then why are they even the AC team?

Personally I CBA to watch a demo of your average Pepé Le Hackeur, I'd rather trust the AC team to judge it. Except in the case of floyd where he wasn't being banned and it got ridiculous.

The current system seems to work, anyway. Has there ever actually been a genuinely good & respected player banned, where most top players would say: that ban was a mistake? Most of the time it's pretty clear cut.

nik · Post by **nik** » Tue Apr 08, 2014 6:24 am

But clanbase was huge at the time.
Wasn't rez also banned from ueda? Or whatever that ban organisation was called. The one that was supposed to sync all bans with all the leagues, but somehow didn't last very long.

I still think bans back then were much worse. A new id wasn't as cheap as it is now, the scene was big and dod mattered more, some people even had dreams of going to cpl or whatever. A ban would have been a problem.

PoweR · Post by **PoweR** » Tue Apr 08, 2014 6:37 am

sorry to get back on the actual ban of noname, but why is it so hard to understand that the french community (what's left of it anyway) don't trust the tpg's AC team? I mean we get flamed pretty much everywhere for being french (or french speaker) and when i see the likes of tonymontana who seems to only wait treads like this one to release all his frustration (no moderation for that?), it makes me wonder if you are actually objective when you have to watch the demos of a french player.

nik · Post by **nik** » Tue Apr 08, 2014 6:44 am

PoweR wrote:sorry to get back on the actual ban of noname, but why is it so hard to understand that the french community (what's left of it anyway) don't trust the tpg's AC team? I mean we get flamed pretty much everywhere for being french (or french speaker) and when i see the likes of tonymontana who seems to only wait treads like this one to release all his frustration (no moderation for that?), it makes me wonder if you are actually objective when you have to watch the demos of a french player.

I don't think there is a real problem. As far as I know clan arsenik (and maybe you also) has always thought both Noname and FLoyd cheated. Wasn't noname on the dod.fr banlist ? The verbal abuse you are talking about is from 1911. Not tpg. Unless ward is still an admin which would be somewhat inappropriate I guess. But 1911 should not be taken too seriously. Every post is sarcastic, cynical or whatever. Even for me it is not easy to know if they are serious (99% of the time they are not). For someone from France I imagine it is even more confusing.

Also no one here takes tony seriously except maybe loker. It would be best if a french european dod player joined the AC team (if there ever is a next tpg.euro). So things won't get out of hand like with the Foyd ban. ALso I don't believe the french who feel wronged ever since the floyd ban. Ever actually disputed any of the non-french players.

An1maL · Post by **An1maL** » Tue Apr 08, 2014 7:05 am

PoweR wrote:why is it so hard to understand that the french community (what's left of it anyway) don't trust the tpg's AC team?

I don't think anybody in this thread has a problem understanding that. Nobody cares though....if they don't trust the TPG ac team, they shouldn't be playing in TPG

PoweR wrote:I mean we get flamed pretty much everywhere for being french

The majority of people don't think like that. Nobody has a problem with people like mdk, arsenik guys etc. Sadly, most matches vs french teams in the last few years, you are almost guaranteed to find someone with low rates, someone you suspect of cheating, or someone who was banned in the past.

edit: But I'm sure the ac team doesn't take into account nationality, unless they're a bunch of closet racists

PoweR · Post by **PoweR** » Tue Apr 08, 2014 7:22 am

nik wrote:
PoweR wrote:sorry to get back on the actual ban of noname, but why is it so hard to understand that the french community (what's left of it anyway) don't trust the tpg's AC team? I mean we get flamed pretty much everywhere for being french (or french speaker) and when i see the likes of tonymontana who seems to only wait treads like this one to release all his frustration (no moderation for that?), it makes me wonder if you are actually objective when you have to watch the demos of a french player.

I don't think there is a real problem. As far as I know clan arsenik (and maybe you also) has always thought both Noname and FLoyd cheated. Wasn't noname on the dod.fr banlist ? The verbal abuse you are talking about is from 1911. Not tpg. Unless ward is still an admin which would be somewhat inappropriate I guess. But 1911 should not be taken too seriously. Every post is sarcastic, cynical or whatever. Even for me it is not easy to know if they are serious (99% of the time they are not). For someone from France I imagine it is even more confusing.

Also no one here takes tony seriously except maybe loker. It would be best if a french european dod player joined the AC team (if there ever is a next tpg.euro). So things won't get out of hand like with the Foyd ban. ALso I don't believe the french who feel wronged ever since the floyd ban. Ever actually disputed any of the non-french players.

I'm not here to discuss if noname actually cheated or not, i don't know and i'm also not here to defend him, he's a big boy.
About the verbal abuse, i'm not just talking about this forum. We never really were taken seriously (rightly or wrongly) by the EU community (despite being one of the biggest community) and i don't expect that it will be the case here.
That being said, i find your idea about a french player in the AC team really good considering the big gap between the "anti cheat system" in the french community and the TPG, it certainly would help to explain the decision to the french community and avoid further shitstorm like the one with Floyd.

@An1maL Really? you just quoted like 6-8 french player you don't actually have trouble with.
And what you're saying about the french teams could be applied to pretty much all european communities (german, spanish, polish etc..), yet we're the only one to actually get abused every time on the international forums, even for a non-french player like me it's getting pretty boring so i can't imagine what they feel like. My point is that i think it's pretty normal to feel a bit suspicious on decisions like this one when you know nobody cares about you.

An1maL · Post by **An1maL** » Tue Apr 08, 2014 7:41 am

PoweR wrote:And what you're saying about the french teams could be applied to pretty much all european communities (german, spanish, polish etc..), yet we're the only one to actually get abused every time on the international forums

dunno, I haven't seen much french abuse outside of the threads where a french player has been banned for cheating...

if there was, it wouldn't be surprising, since the most vocal french person posting on this site is l0ker, not the best ambassador

you are right about the other nationalities, even the UK has chumps like skweek's crew. it just seems that france produces more cheaters than other countries (probably because france has more overall players)

Cage · Post by **Cage** » Tue Apr 08, 2014 7:45 am

Well, everytime I have played a french team there is either some guy warping or he's using that god damn mousewheel-duck-unhittable as fuck bind, or is just unhittable in general (wasabi or someone like that?).
And then fact that french people act like it's them against the world, a french player that 12man regularly said that when floyd got banned he was asked to stand up for floyd just because he was french and when he refused to do so he was on the "traitor of france" list.
I remember going to the tourist shop in paris when on a trip with my family and they wouldn't speak english to me, thats the kind of people I'm supposed to feel bad for when there is always someone exploiting some script etc. when you play them.?

nik · Post by **nik** » Tue Apr 08, 2014 7:59 am

I must say most of the englishmen I know are sort of biassed concerning french

I myself never had any problems with french people untill P4 and Su showed up and started blatantly hacking vs me and hiding his hltv demo's from everyone while still making fragmovies. He also aparantly caught smokk cheating which looked convincing and there was this whole le stinge has no flower argument. But none of these things were ever properly settled. There has been a growing sense of distrust between the community's ever since this period. Anyway, that is how I see it.

I always liked playing vs EUS and Arsenik (even though Wazabi really is unhittable). For a long time playing french clans was the only good opponent you could find. And I hardly ever had any problems. But now I am talking about 2 years ago.

PoweR · Post by **PoweR** » Tue Apr 08, 2014 8:02 am

Well, everytime I have played a french team there is either some guy warping or he's using that god damn mousewheel-duck-unhittable as fuck bind, or is just unhittable in general (wasabi or someone like that?).

Again, i could say the same about spanish teams for example.

And then fact that french people act like it's them against the world, a french player that 12man regularly said that when floyd got banned he was asked to stand up for floyd just because he was french and when he refused to do so he was on the "traitor of france" list.

Im not saying there's nothing wrong with the french community, there's a lot : the "france agaisn't the world" is one of them (and i must be a part of that "traitor of france" list since i didn't suck floyd's dick either) but i don't think there's more than in other countries and still we get 300% more abuse.

I remember going to the tourist shop in paris when on a trip with my family and they wouldn't speak english to me, thats the kind of people I'm supposed to feel bad for when there is always someone exploiting some script etc. when you play them.?

I bet you have also some assholes working in tourist shops in stockholm.

@nik Well nobody liked Su or the P4 teams in France either, there has been some epic shitstorm on dodfrance (french community site). The problem is that we're a kinda closed community for some of the reasons i have said, so you only hear about french player when something bad happens like a cheating case or when we cry after a defeat in .eu officials.

nik · Post by **nik** » Tue Apr 08, 2014 8:15 am

also many people joke about calli saving dod etc.

But often it are single persons that are keeping things together. You need these type of persons, especially when dealing with as you put it "closed community's". I think Bibop played a important part in the communication vs france and the other counrtries or in the countless pcws we played. He sort of dropped after the FLoyd ban and all we have now is Loker flaming all the time.

An1maL · Post by **An1maL** » Tue Apr 08, 2014 8:16 am

PoweR wrote:still we get 300% more abuse.

man, where is this abuse you're talking about?

sure there's people saying in this thread 'another french cheater' etc, but look in the karl1san thread at the abuse towards him being argentinan, and if there was a polish or spanish cheater i'm sure it would be the same.

jizziztszsz · Post by **jizziztszsz** » Tue Apr 08, 2014 8:19 am

This would be so easy if there were as much lan's as back in the days. play good at lan should prove enough... imo.

nik · Post by **nik** » Tue Apr 08, 2014 8:26 am

jizziztszsz wrote:This would be so easy if there were as much lan's as back in the days. play good at lan should prove enough... imo.

Not sure. I think both Floyd and Noname should be ok on lan.
I am less certain about blank though. And the likes of chriseh and aimtek would be really bad.

PoweR · Post by **PoweR** » Tue Apr 08, 2014 8:28 am

An1maL wrote:
PoweR wrote:still we get 300% more abuse.
man, where is this abuse you're talking about?

sure there's people saying in this thread 'another french cheater' etc, but look in the karl1san thread at the abuse towards him being argentinan, and if there was a polish or spanish cheater i'm sure it would be the same.

Well it's simple things really (im not just talking about cheater's thread) but when you add them all up (since like 5-6 years) can get pretty annoying. You have all the insults before, during and after the war, all the "jokes" or clear insults on the forums and im not even talking about what some foreign players say when they come playing on french ffa server (bnzr if you heaarrr me).
I also think you know pretty well that french players are less considered on the international scene or you're lying :p
Still i'm not trying to get dramatic, we're not verbally rape it's just really annoying.

edit : my flag is moving, all your arguments are now invalid
edit2 : nevermind :p