Beef or Whey

[Jstampz]

To all you lifters out there...

I've always been a big Whey protein fan. After searching for awhile a few years back I stumbled upon the brand Optimum Nutrition and haven't tried many proteins since. As time has gone on I've realized how wasteful expensive proteins/weight gainers can be. So I've stuck to ON Hydro-Builder due to the creatine content. Every now and then I'll grab a bag of ON Pro-Gainer. Mixes well, taste great, and supplies quality carbs after a workout. I mix a protein with two raw eggs, and a scoop of Carbo Gain immediately after a workout.

Now, on to the real question. I've heard some great things about Beef Protein. Quality amino acid profile/absorbs faster/better digestion. Has anyone tried it?

If any of you all are looking for a really great BCAA drink, go buy Rich Piana's All Day You May. Grab a gallon jug, put 2-4 scoops of the powder, some fast digestion carbs, some creatine, and you've got your drink throughout the day. It has digestive enzymes that have really helped lately with the surplus of food and carbs I try and get. It also really improves your workout- allows your muscles to feed on the BCAAs throughout the day. And the shit tastes fucking great.

[devin-]

dbol and tuna

[stile]

Will it really matter in the long run? Keep lifting and keep eating.

[Beas]

when it comes to supplements. Keep things simple and as affordable as you can and focus on spending that money on real food sources. (fresh veggies, fruit, chicken/fish/beef etc) You should only be having 1-2 shakes a day if you have them every day. You will not notice any difference in those two powdered protein sources. The only protein I buy is optimum nutrition gold standard or natural whey and I always have a scoop or two after my workout and sometimes i'll have one first thing in the morning.

This is the beef protein i tried years ago when it first came out

http://musclemedsrx.com/carnivor

it was ok, nothing special

My supplement list is usually something like this.

Probiotic, Fish oil, garlic tablets(good quality ones for the benefits of garlic. No garlic breath after either), preworkout, whey protein....and thats about it

[Jstampz]

when it comes to supplements. Keep things simple and as affordable as you can and focus on spending that money on real food sources. (fresh veggies, fruit, chicken/fish/beef etc) You should only be having 1-2 shakes a day if you have them every day. You will not notice any difference in those two powdered protein sources. The only protein I buy is optimum nutrition gold standard or natural whey and I always have a scoop or two after my workout and sometimes i'll have one first thing in the morning.

This is the beef protein i tried years ago when it first came out

http://musclemedsrx.com/carnivor

it was ok, nothing special

My supplement list is usually something like this.

Probiotic, Fish oil, garlic tablets(good quality ones for the benefits of garlic. No garlic breath after either), preworkout, whey protein....and thats about it

I've used Optimum Nutrition Gold Standard Whey for the past two years. I use to waste a ridiculous amount of money attempting to find the best possible protein. I realized as you said, real food is the most important. I grabbed a bag of Optimum Nutrition Pro Gainer because it taste pretty damn good and has 60 grams of protein per serving.

My supplement list:

Optimum Nutrition Fish Oil, Rich Pianas's 5% "All Day You May" BCAAs, Carbo Gain, Beast Creature Creatine, and Whey Protein. Every now and then I'll add a pre-workout/ Cellucor Alpha Aminos.

I've gotten into the habit of eating 7-8 egg whites with oatmeal each morning, then 2-3 hours later drinking a shake. I'm still attempting to bulk, so I'm upping my carbs and proteins.

[Beas]

when it comes to supplements. Keep things simple and as affordable as you can and focus on spending that money on real food sources. (fresh veggies, fruit, chicken/fish/beef etc) You should only be having 1-2 shakes a day if you have them every day. You will not notice any difference in those two powdered protein sources. The only protein I buy is optimum nutrition gold standard or natural whey and I always have a scoop or two after my workout and sometimes i'll have one first thing in the morning.

This is the beef protein i tried years ago when it first came out

http://musclemedsrx.com/carnivor

it was ok, nothing special

My supplement list is usually something like this.

Probiotic, Fish oil, garlic tablets(good quality ones for the benefits of garlic. No garlic breath after either), preworkout, whey protein....and thats about it

I've used Optimum Nutrition Gold Standard Whey for the past two years. I use to waste a ridiculous amount of money attempting to find the best possible protein. I realized as you said, real food is the most important. I grabbed a bag of Optimum Nutrition Pro Gainer because it taste pretty damn good and has 60 grams of protein per serving.

My supplement list:

Optimum Nutrition Fish Oil, Rich Pianas's 5% "All Day You May" BCAAs, Carbo Gain, Beast Creature Creatine, and Whey Protein. Every now and then I'll add a pre-workout/ Cellucor Alpha Aminos.

I've gotten into the habit of eating 7-8 egg whites with oatmeal each morning, then 2-3 hours later drinking a shake. I'm still attempting to bulk, so I'm upping my carbs and proteins.

yeah pro gainer will work great as well. I have used it before. I've tested different BCAAs to sip on throughout the day and for me as long as I was getting my meals every 2 1/2 to 3 hours, I didn't really need to sip on bcaa supplements. For road trips it is a great supplement if you are going to be driving a good distance and wont be able to get a meal in.

I'm guessing you are trying to do as clean of a bulk as possible?

What do your meals for bulking consist of? how many carbs and grams of protein daily? are you a hard gainer?

[nhoj]

I've gotten into the habit of eating 7-8 egg whites with oatmeal each morning, then 2-3 hours later drinking a shake. I'm still attempting to bulk, so I'm upping my carbs and proteins.

Don't forget the yolk. There's no reason to skip out on them as they provide a wide range of nutrients, so long as they fit your macros(if you care about that). Try to eat a minimum of 1-2 yolk(s) if you're having 7-8 egg whites every morning, it's not like it will hurt you.
The extra calories shouldn't be a big problem if you're on a bulk.

[Jstampz]

when it comes to supplements. Keep things simple and as affordable as you can and focus on spending that money on real food sources. (fresh veggies, fruit, chicken/fish/beef etc) You should only be having 1-2 shakes a day if you have them every day. You will not notice any difference in those two powdered protein sources. The only protein I buy is optimum nutrition gold standard or natural whey and I always have a scoop or two after my workout and sometimes i'll have one first thing in the morning.

This is the beef protein i tried years ago when it first came out

http://musclemedsrx.com/carnivor

it was ok, nothing special

My supplement list is usually something like this.

Probiotic, Fish oil, garlic tablets(good quality ones for the benefits of garlic. No garlic breath after either), preworkout, whey protein....and thats about it

I've used Optimum Nutrition Gold Standard Whey for the past two years. I use to waste a ridiculous amount of money attempting to find the best possible protein. I realized as you said, real food is the most important. I grabbed a bag of Optimum Nutrition Pro Gainer because it taste pretty damn good and has 60 grams of protein per serving.

My supplement list:

Optimum Nutrition Fish Oil, Rich Pianas's 5% "All Day You May" BCAAs, Carbo Gain, Beast Creature Creatine, and Whey Protein. Every now and then I'll add a pre-workout/ Cellucor Alpha Aminos.

I've gotten into the habit of eating 7-8 egg whites with oatmeal each morning, then 2-3 hours later drinking a shake. I'm still attempting to bulk, so I'm upping my carbs and proteins.

yeah pro gainer will work great as well. I have used it before. I've tested different BCAAs to sip on throughout the day and for me as long as I was getting my meals every 2 1/2 to 3 hours, I didn't really need to sip on bcaa supplements. For road trips it is a great supplement if you are going to be driving a good distance and wont be able to get a meal in.

I'm guessing you are trying to do as clean of a bulk as possible?

What do your meals for bulking consist of? how many carbs and grams of protein daily? are you a hard gainer?

I have 3% body fat and a metabolism that's ridiculously fast. It's hard to gain weight, so I constantly mix up workouts/workout routines and try and get anywhere from 5-8 meals a day.

Daily goals are usually somewhere around 200 grams of protein, and anywhere from 200-500 grams of carbs. Or as much as possible. I get busy with work and school so drinking the BCAAs helps a ton. I always make sure to eat right before bed too.

I've been doing some feeder workouts the past two nights, I'm going to see if it works. Rich Piana followers swear by it.


I was recently given a vial of Sustanon 250, but I'm not going to steer into the unnatural path until I hit some sort of plateau.

[sevEN]

you don't have 3% body fat.

[nhoj]

If you're not lying and actually have 3% body fat. You're closer to be a corpse than a healthy 19-21 year old.

[Jstampz]

Well alright, I've been tested numerous times and have stayed consistent with 3% body fat since I was tested in August. I have gained weight since, so hopefully it's higher than that.

I always thought my percentage would be around 10-15. But numbers don't lie.


During my junior wrestling season, I was tested and I sat around 9%, but ever since the summer after that season, as far as I know, I've been at 3%. Now, I could be totally wrong and not given an accurate tests, but regardless it's low. Whatever it is, it's lower than I want it to be

[Beas]

I've used Optimum Nutrition Gold Standard Whey for the past two years. I use to waste a ridiculous amount of money attempting to find the best possible protein. I realized as you said, real food is the most important. I grabbed a bag of Optimum Nutrition Pro Gainer because it taste pretty damn good and has 60 grams of protein per serving.

My supplement list:

Optimum Nutrition Fish Oil, Rich Pianas's 5% "All Day You May" BCAAs, Carbo Gain, Beast Creature Creatine, and Whey Protein. Every now and then I'll add a pre-workout/ Cellucor Alpha Aminos.

I've gotten into the habit of eating 7-8 egg whites with oatmeal each morning, then 2-3 hours later drinking a shake. I'm still attempting to bulk, so I'm upping my carbs and proteins.

yeah pro gainer will work great as well. I have used it before. I've tested different BCAAs to sip on throughout the day and for me as long as I was getting my meals every 2 1/2 to 3 hours, I didn't really need to sip on bcaa supplements. For road trips it is a great supplement if you are going to be driving a good distance and wont be able to get a meal in.

I'm guessing you are trying to do as clean of a bulk as possible?

What do your meals for bulking consist of? how many carbs and grams of protein daily? are you a hard gainer?

I have 3% body fat and a metabolism that's ridiculously fast. It's hard to gain weight, so I constantly mix up workouts/workout routines and try and get anywhere from 5-8 meals a day.

Daily goals are usually somewhere around 200 grams of protein, and anywhere from 200-500 grams of carbs. Or as much as possible. I get busy with work and school so drinking the BCAAs helps a ton. I always make sure to eat right before bed too.

I've been doing some feeder workouts the past two nights, I'm going to see if it works. Rich Piana followers swear by it.


I was recently given a vial of Sustanon 250, but I'm not going to steer into the unnatural path until I hit some sort of plateau.

My First immediate question is directed towards the sus 250...

How old are you and how long have you consistently been training? And what is your goal you are working towards? Just trying to bulk up and stay in shape, and enjoy working out? Or are you trying to do a show/competition in the future?

like the others said 3% doesn't seem accurate because of the health factors that would cause, but either way it sounds like you are one of those that naturally has that dry low body fat look and can eat anything in sight. What are your protein sources and what are your carb sources? What do your meals typically consist of? **** What will you eat today for example? ****

yeah ive done my own version of 'feeder workouts' for years to go alongside my core workout regiment. What does your workout plan for a week look like?

[Jstampz]

yeah pro gainer will work great as well. I have used it before. I've tested different BCAAs to sip on throughout the day and for me as long as I was getting my meals every 2 1/2 to 3 hours, I didn't really need to sip on bcaa supplements. For road trips it is a great supplement if you are going to be driving a good distance and wont be able to get a meal in.

I'm guessing you are trying to do as clean of a bulk as possible?

What do your meals for bulking consist of? how many carbs and grams of protein daily? are you a hard gainer?

I have 3% body fat and a metabolism that's ridiculously fast. It's hard to gain weight, so I constantly mix up workouts/workout routines and try and get anywhere from 5-8 meals a day.

Daily goals are usually somewhere around 200 grams of protein, and anywhere from 200-500 grams of carbs. Or as much as possible. I get busy with work and school so drinking the BCAAs helps a ton. I always make sure to eat right before bed too.

I've been doing some feeder workouts the past two nights, I'm going to see if it works. Rich Piana followers swear by it.


I was recently given a vial of Sustanon 250, but I'm not going to steer into the unnatural path until I hit some sort of plateau.

My First immediate question is directed towards the sus 250...

How old are you and how long have you consistently been training? And what is your goal you are working towards? Just trying to bulk up and stay in shape, and enjoy working out? Or are you trying to do a show/competition in the future?

like the others said 3% doesn't seem accurate because of the health factors that would cause, but either way it sounds like you are one of those that naturally has that dry low body fat look and can eat anything in sight. What are your protein sources and what are your carb sources? What do your meals typically consist of? **** What will you eat today for example? ****

yeah ive done my own version of 'feeder workouts' for years to go alongside my core workout regiment. What does your workout plan for a week look like?

I'd like to compete eventually. I know I'm far off where I need to be. Haven't used the sust yet, but eventually I'll add it. I'm looking to bulk because cutting is the easy part for me.

My meals go:
Wake up: 7-8 egg whites with a cup and a half or so of oatmeal.
About an hour later: chicken breast with white rice and a cracked egg over top
Two hours later: some other protein source with a carb and vegetable
Hour and half later: carbs carb carb
Gym time
Immediately after workout: Shake
After workout: protein source and carbs
Right before bed: whatever, as long as it has carbs

Throughout the day I drink BCAAs with a full scoop of Carbo gain and creatine mixed in. Every now and then I'll add a scoop and a half of Carbo gain.

My post workout shake has 140 total carbs and 60 grams of protein.

My carbs sources are usually just oatmeal, rice, and/or pasta

Usually I'll have class or school which pushes some of these times back. They aren't the most accurate but I try to get 6-7 meals in a day.

I've been consistently training for about two years. Before that, hit bullshit high school football workouts that didn't account for anything but strength.

[`NG]

You're going to have to buy custom shirts soon, hulk.

[Jstampz]

You're going to have to buy custom shirts soon, hulk.

The whole "no neck thing" is slowly occurring.

[ao_]

You are just another vicitim of successful marketing on behalf of the supplement companies. Instead of beef protein, try eating actual beef post workout, your anabolic window lasts much longer than the standard fifteen mintues that is engrained into your head by the protein shake companies. Also, being relatively young, you don't need all of those supplements... Your body is producing enough testosterone to make significant muscular gains. I put on about twenty pounds and shot up in weights by following the right routine while taking no supplements. Just look at everything as a science experiment with your body. And as Flux said, just eat baseball player sized meals... If you say you can cut weight easily and are young, I would be filling my face like a fat hog. I would kill for the same metabolism I had when I was 21.

[Jstampz]

You are just another vicitim of successful marketing on behalf of the supplement companies. Instead of beef protein, try eating actual beef post workout, your anabolic window lasts much longer than the standard fifteen mintues that is engrained into your head by the protein shake companies. Also, being relatively young, you don't need all of those supplements... Your body is producing enough testosterone to make significant muscular gains. I put on about twenty pounds and shot up in weights by following the right routine while taking no supplements. Just look at everything as a science experiment with your body. And as Flux said, just eat baseball player sized meals... If you say you can cut weight easily and are young, I would be filling my face like a fat hog. I would kill for the same metabolism I had when I was 21.

Well I always eat a meal right after my workout. It's just easier to add a shake because it's convenient. Shakes give me the ability to add a surplus of carbs that I wouldn't be able to get entirely from one meal. I'm a firm believe in getting a carb/protein in your system RIGHT after a workout.

[Beas]

I have 3% body fat and a metabolism that's ridiculously fast. It's hard to gain weight, so I constantly mix up workouts/workout routines and try and get anywhere from 5-8 meals a day.

Daily goals are usually somewhere around 200 grams of protein, and anywhere from 200-500 grams of carbs. Or as much as possible. I get busy with work and school so drinking the BCAAs helps a ton. I always make sure to eat right before bed too.

I've been doing some feeder workouts the past two nights, I'm going to see if it works. Rich Piana followers swear by it.


I was recently given a vial of Sustanon 250, but I'm not going to steer into the unnatural path until I hit some sort of plateau.

My First immediate question is directed towards the sus 250...

How old are you and how long have you consistently been training? And what is your goal you are working towards? Just trying to bulk up and stay in shape, and enjoy working out? Or are you trying to do a show/competition in the future?

like the others said 3% doesn't seem accurate because of the health factors that would cause, but either way it sounds like you are one of those that naturally has that dry low body fat look and can eat anything in sight. What are your protein sources and what are your carb sources? What do your meals typically consist of? **** What will you eat today for example? ****

yeah ive done my own version of 'feeder workouts' for years to go alongside my core workout regiment. What does your workout plan for a week look like?

I'd like to compete eventually. I know I'm far off where I need to be. Haven't used the sust yet, but eventually I'll add it. I'm looking to bulk because cutting is the easy part for me.

My meals go:
Wake up: 7-8 egg whites with a cup and a half or so of oatmeal.
About an hour later: chicken breast with white rice and a cracked egg over top
Two hours later: some other protein source with a carb and vegetable
Hour and half later: carbs carb carb
Gym time
Immediately after workout: Shake
After workout: protein source and carbs
Right before bed: whatever, as long as it has carbs

Throughout the day I drink BCAAs with a full scoop of Carbo gain and creatine mixed in. Every now and then I'll add a scoop and a half of Carbo gain.

My post workout shake has 140 total carbs and 60 grams of protein.

My carbs sources are usually just oatmeal, rice, and/or pasta

Usually I'll have class or school which pushes some of these times back. They aren't the most accurate but I try to get 6-7 meals in a day.

I've been consistently training for about two years. Before that, hit bullshit high school football workouts that didn't account for anything but strength.

no fish? I love eating fish. haha

Meals look good enough. Brown rice, whole wheat pasta, and sweet potatoes should be your best friends with meals.

2 years of consistently training is a good start, but stay away from the sus 250 in my opinion. If you are going to use it down the road, I would get a few more years of consistent training and eating. When/if you decide to cycle the sus, just make sure you do your research before and know what you're doing. If you know someone that truly knows his shit, then ask him lots of questions.

[Jstampz]

My First immediate question is directed towards the sus 250...

How old are you and how long have you consistently been training? And what is your goal you are working towards? Just trying to bulk up and stay in shape, and enjoy working out? Or are you trying to do a show/competition in the future?

like the others said 3% doesn't seem accurate because of the health factors that would cause, but either way it sounds like you are one of those that naturally has that dry low body fat look and can eat anything in sight. What are your protein sources and what are your carb sources? What do your meals typically consist of? **** What will you eat today for example? ****

yeah ive done my own version of 'feeder workouts' for years to go alongside my core workout regiment. What does your workout plan for a week look like?

I'd like to compete eventually. I know I'm far off where I need to be. Haven't used the sust yet, but eventually I'll add it. I'm looking to bulk because cutting is the easy part for me.

My meals go:
Wake up: 7-8 egg whites with a cup and a half or so of oatmeal.
About an hour later: chicken breast with white rice and a cracked egg over top
Two hours later: some other protein source with a carb and vegetable
Hour and half later: carbs carb carb
Gym time
Immediately after workout: Shake
After workout: protein source and carbs
Right before bed: whatever, as long as it has carbs

Throughout the day I drink BCAAs with a full scoop of Carbo gain and creatine mixed in. Every now and then I'll add a scoop and a half of Carbo gain.

My post workout shake has 140 total carbs and 60 grams of protein.

My carbs sources are usually just oatmeal, rice, and/or pasta

Usually I'll have class or school which pushes some of these times back. They aren't the most accurate but I try to get 6-7 meals in a day.

I've been consistently training for about two years. Before that, hit bullshit high school football workouts that didn't account for anything but strength.

no fish? I love eating fish. haha

Meals look good enough. Brown rice, whole wheat pasta, and sweet potatoes should be your best friends with meals.

2 years of consistently training is a good start, but stay away from the sus 250 in my opinion. If you are going to use it down the road, I would get a few more years of consistent training and eating. When/if you decide to cycle the sus, just make sure you do your research before and know what you're doing. If you know someone that truly knows his shit, then ask him lots of questions.

Thanks man. I need to add some fish. I use to eat it on a weekly basis.

I've got a guy who's real knowledgable about the cycle. Sustanon 250, D-Bol, and clomed for the first cycle. But I'll take the advice and continue to wait a few years before trying it.

[sevEN]

body builders that show up to a competition in their best condition rarely hit 3%, even when they are literally on stage and have timed their diet the previous 12-24 hours perfectly. and even if they are able to get that lean, they can only maintain that for a period of hours. there is absolutely 100% no way you have maintained anywhere close to 3% for any period of time. i highly doubt you have ever sniffed 3% at any given point in your training. People really don't realize that even as you enter the 7-8% range, you look incredibly lean and it might shock you how lean someone looks only to learn that they are around 6-7% for example.

I don't say this to be a dick, and it seems like you are doing everything properly and taking your training and diet seriously. But think about this... if a body builder very rarely reaches 3% while CUTTING for a contest, how can you MAINTAIN a 3% body fat for over 6 months while taking in massive amounts of carbs and weight gainer shakes? The body fat percentage test you are being given is horribly inaccurate.

[sevEN]

You are just another vicitim of successful marketing on behalf of the supplement companies. Instead of beef protein, try eating actual beef post workout, your anabolic window lasts much longer than the standard fifteen mintues that is engrained into your head by the protein shake companies. Also, being relatively young, you don't need all of those supplements... Your body is producing enough testosterone to make significant muscular gains. I put on about twenty pounds and shot up in weights by following the right routine while taking no supplements. Just look at everything as a science experiment with your body. And as Flux said, just eat baseball player sized meals... If you say you can cut weight easily and are young, I would be filling my face like a fat hog. I would kill for the same metabolism I had when I was 21.

Also, this.

I still keep a bottle of whey around just in those very desperate situations that i just NEED calories on the go, like if i am late for work in the morning and i know i won't have a break for another 4 hours to eat my first meal... but i don't remember the last time i took a shake after a workout. i lift, drive to the store, buy ground beef and sweet potato, go home, cook, and then eat. and as ao said, that anabolic window is a LOT wider than you are made to believe, mostly in order to push you to buy whey and chug it down before you get home from the gym in fear of losing all of your gains.

[Jstampz]

I much rather drink a shake within 5 minutes of my workout, then eat within 45-60 minutes.

[kirk]

ao and Joey are dropping knowledge on you and you're being an idiot. I would consider less talking and more taking notes from them.

You would basically die at 3% body fat. It's not physiologically possible or at very least not remotely sustainable, so whoever tested you just stole your money. Go ahead and work on litigation to get your moneyz back.

Getting carbs/protein RIGHT after a workout gives you zero edge over waiting a few hours and then eating unless you are literally depleting glycogen stores and then some aka doing loads of cardio. If we're talking about lifting here, it really doesn't matter at all. You can continue to "believe" it all you like but it's really not adding anything.

Just eat and lift. Unless you're trying to compete you really don't need to do more than that. Simply be mindful of the calories you are eating and adjust based on cutting/gaining goals. Forget about meal timing and all that stuff. It's good to be on top of micronutrients, but whole wheat vs. white foods or complex carbs vs. simple carbs doesn't seem to mean anything with regards to body composition unless some medical diagnosis dictates otherwise.

tldr don't be a fucking bro and just eat and lift you piece of shit.

[Jstampz]

You're idiotic "professional" input is just as ignorant as my 3% body fat level.

I'm not a power lifter who looks to build brute strength. This "lift and eat" mentality you swear by does not allow my body to gain the significant amount of muscle I desire. I'm at a very low body fat percentage. Lower than each of yours- I guarantee it. Whether it's 3% or 13%, it's relatively low. I was tested on an Omran body fat percentage machine. It read 3% body fat. I paid nothing, I simply stepped on it, followed the guys instructions, said thank you, and left. It could have been completely wrong, but I read what I read.

Alex Kirk, my body is not like yours, or Mr. Harter's. Joey use to be fat and I'd imagine you aren't the skinniest man either. I have been skinny my entire life with a higher level of difficulty to gain, and sustain a good amount of muscle. I don't waste my time counting macros/micros. I have a general idea of protein/carb levels in my food. I HAVE to eat a lot to get big. Eat big, get big "bro".

It's a fact, that carbs right after a workout is one of the most beneficial nutrients you need to restore what you've lost during your workout.

You jack fucks may wait hours to eat, but as for me, I'll continue my eating habits while continuing to gain muscle.

I understand AO has a quality point. The window your body has to supply nutrients back into the system after a workout is larger than imagine. But I rather drink my shake RIGHT after a workout. It works for me, and MY body. So I'll stick to it. You stick to cycling bud.

Your jealousy is sweet Kirk. I miss it greatly. **kisses**

Thank you Beas for the helpful information. It seems we have similar eating habits. I've heard some good things about Beef protein and was only wondering if it was a better powder to shoot for, since it's cheaper.

[devin-]

skinfold caliper's are much more accurate for calculating body fat %

[nhoj]

Instead of being a dickhead and ignoring what everyone said, after all they are trying to help you. You should consider taking their advice and add it to your daily routine as they won't harm you at all. Don't forget supplements are called supplements for a reason, to fill the gaps your diet . If you don't want to wait an hour to eat it, why don't you make a lunch box and eat it after your done? It's going to save you a lot of money in the long run. Chicken and veggies is a cheap and simple option since chicken taste delicious even if it's unheated.

If you still think you can't reach the goal at your current state, hire a professional trainer who knows what (s)he is doing.

If you keep a tunnel vision on diet and training and thinking what works for you at your current state is the best and only solution before cycling around with different routines. You will most likely find more problems than not gaining muscles.


Shit talking about the people trying to help you will definitely not help you..

[Jstampz]

Instead of being a dickhead and ignoring what everyone said, after all they are trying to help you. You should consider taking their advice and add it to your daily routine as they won't harm you at all. Don't forget supplements are called supplements for a reason, to fill the gaps your diet . If you don't want to wait an hour to eat it, why don't you make a lunch box and eat it after your done? It's going to save you a lot of money in the long run. Chicken and veggies is a cheap and simple option since chicken taste delicious even if it's unheated.

If you still think you can't reach the goal at your current state, hire a professional trainer who knows what (s)he is doing.

If you keep a tunnel vision on diet and training and thinking what works for you at your current state is the best and only solution before cycling around with different routines. You will most likely find more problems than not gaining muscles.


Shit talking about the people trying to help you will definitely not help you..

Advice? Calling me a "piece of shit" isn't much advice bud.


I've tried numerous routines. Switching from various meals, times, and even workouts. I've found what best fits me, and I am sticking to it. I'll take some of what is said and apply to my routine but for the most part what was said doesn't apply to a guy trying to pack on a large amount of muscle. The tips given by Joey, and Alex (if you call them tips), mostly apply to someone who desires to just lift weights.

The only useful advice given were from you, Beas, and AO.

I'm not trying to be a dick head here, but when you open a forum to name call and be an ass such as Kirk so obviously did, I will fire back.

As said before, I thank you all for your input.

[kirk]

You're idiotic "professional" input is just as ignorant as my 3% body fat level.

I'm not a power lifter who looks to build brute strength. This "lift and eat" mentality you swear by does not allow my body to gain the significant amount of muscle I desire. I'm at a very low body fat percentage. Lower than each of yours- I guarantee it. Whether it's 3% or 13%, it's relatively low. I was tested on an Omran body fat percentage machine. It read 3% body fat. I paid nothing, I simply stepped on it, followed the guys instructions, said thank you, and left. It could have been completely wrong, but I read what I read.

You call me idiotic while not understanding how impossible it'd be to be 3% body fact for any extended period of time.

Your body does not defy the law of thermodynamics, bro. Sorry, you're just not that special. If anything the "lift and eat" mentality IS for YOUR body type specifically. Why don't you eat a fucking jar of peanut butter, a pound of cashews, or drink a gallon of whole milk every day. It's not hard in the slightest, you're just favoring nutrient dense foods (which is good) and relying on them for weight gain without understanding that they tend to be calorie-sparse. That's a ridiculously uphill battle; you need to incorporate more calorie-dense foods. Calories in/calories out, dude. This is like algebra.

Alex Kirk, my body is not like yours, or Mr. Harter's. Joey use to be fat and I'd imagine you aren't the skinniest man either. I have been skinny my entire life with a higher level of difficulty to gain, and sustain a good amount of muscle. I don't waste my time counting macros/micros. I have a general idea of protein/carb levels in my food. I HAVE to eat a lot to get big. Eat big, get big "bro".

What the fuck why do you think everyone is saying "eat and lift"? You are entirely incapable of actually absorbing what people are telling you.

It's a fact, that carbs right after a workout is one of the most beneficial nutrients you need to restore what you've lost during your workout.

Really? Provide some evidence to support these facts! God I wonder how people on ketogenic diets do it when they eat 0g carbs per day. How is it that they get big without eating carbs? Please do explain this to me since I clearly know way more than you!

What makes you think you need to restore anything after a workout unless glycogen stores are depleted? Do you know what glycogen is? If glycogen and free state fatty acids are not depleted, doing both of which would be an astounding feat if you are not doing massive amounts of cardio, then what the fuck are you even talking about?

You jack fucks may wait hours to eat, but as for me, I'll continue my eating habits while continuing to gain muscle.

I understand AO has a quality point. The window your body has to supply nutrients back into the system after a workout is larger than imagine. But I rather drink my shake RIGHT after a workout. It works for me, and MY body. So I'll stick to it. You stick to cycling bud.

No one said you're wrong to do it, just that it's unnecessary. You could drink that shake hours after the fact and be fine. Human metabolism has evolved for hundreds of thousands of years; you won't lose muscle if you don't drink your precious protein shake precisely 10 minutes after lifting, dude.

If you are continuing to gain muscle then what do you need our input for? One second you struggle, the next you're gaining, pick one.

Thank you Beas for the helpful information. It seems we have similar eating habits. I've heard some good things about Beef protein and was only wondering if it was a better powder to shoot for, since it's cheaper.

Kid doesn't know what amino acids are.

Advice? Calling me a "piece of shit" isn't much advice bud.

I've tried numerous routines. Switching from various meals, times, and even workouts. I've found what best fits me, and I am sticking to it. I'll take some of what is said and apply to my routine but for the most part what was said doesn't apply to a guy trying to pack on a large amount of muscle. The tips given by Joey, and Alex (if you call them tips), mostly apply to someone who desires to just lift weights.

The only useful advice given were from you, Beas, and AO.

I'm not trying to be a dick head here, but when you open a forum to name call and be an ass such as Kirk so obviously did, I will fire back.

As said before, I thank you all for your input.

Calling you a piece of shit wasn't the advice. Read above me calling you a piece of shit. There's your knowledge.

[kirk]

LIKE WHY ARE YOU COMPLAINING ABOUT WEIGHT GAIN WHEN YOU EAT EGG WHITES? Shit gets me HEATED. DAMN.

[Beas]

[Jstampz]

1. With my current diet, I eat 7-8 egg whites every morning. Throughout the day I eat 3-4 whole eggs. (Yoke included). If I were to eat all whole eggs throughout the day. I'd be going through a dozen eggs A DAY. Egg whites are easier and more affordable to me. Thanks

2. Amino acids are compounds that make up proteins. Amino acids are crucial for protein synthesis. Amino acids are the building blocks of muscle. Thanks

3. From what I've read, you all focus little on bodybuilding and more on power lifting. Correct? Isn't that what most of your workouts consist of? I'm guessing your workout intels quite a bit of compound movements such as power cleans, hang cleans, box squats, and more power movements? Working on speed, and strength? My workouts consist of 1-2 compounds movements depending on what split I'm currently working through. I focus on the muscle and don't give two fucks about strength. I had a strength coach throughout high school that built the "eat big, and lift bro" mentality. That mantality builds more strength than anything in my experience. I've had the most muscle gained from doing focused workouts, squeezing and contracting each muscle and feeling a huge pump. I pre-exhaust the muscle, then end my workouts with a compound movement to totally kill the muscle.Thanks

4. I stated previously my 3% body fat level could be wrong. So you continuesly telling me how outrageous it is to think my level is so low is ignorant to say the least. The machine read 3%, and that's what I went by. Thanks

5. I work twice as hard as the normal lifter to gain muscle. I have to. I pack my system full of mostly clean protein rich foods, and carbs. I'm no stickler to eating clean, but it makes me feel better throughout the day. Since focusing on bodybuilding rather than powerlifting I have gained 15-17 pounds (not sure how much is water weight), but the number on the scale is bigger, my muscles are bigger, and I'm more vascular than I've ever been. Thanks

6. The main reason to consume carbs post-workout is to replenish the muscle glycogen that you burned during your workout. As you train, your main fuel source is muscle glycogen. Glycogen is the storage form of glucose. It is composed of long strings of glucose molecules with numerous branches. The glucose break from the glycogen chain as needed in order to generate ATP, which transports chemical energy and is crucial for muscle contractions. The best way to replenish muscle glycogen stores after workouts is to consume high-glycemic (fast-digesting) carbs as soon as possible.

7. The main focus of this thread was to ask about beef protein. I'd heard some good things about it. Some guys had stomach issues with whey protein powder and found comfort drinking beef protein. My former strength coach said the amino acid profile is better and it's natural. I was simply wondering if some of you guys liked it or not. Thanks

8. I'm young and I have much to learn. But I don't take advice well from arrogant ass hats such as yourself. I may have incorrect understandings of certain concepts, but that in no way means I'm an idiot on the matter. Everyone's body acts, and reacts differently to lifting weights, and food/supplement consumption. If you're going to be an ass, I will not take your advice. I may be wrong in some areas, and I apologize. Sorry bro. Love you.

[kirk]

1. With my current diet, I eat 7-8 egg whites every morning. Throughout the day I eat 3-4 whole eggs. (Yoke included). If I were to eat all whole eggs throughout the day. I'd be going through a dozen eggs A DAY. Egg whites are easier and more affordable to me. Thanks

How are egg whites cheaper than eggs? A carton of eggs is like $2. Where do you live where egg whites are cheaper (from a $/calorie standpoint) than an egg that is less than $0.20?

2. Amino acids are compounds that make up proteins. Amino acids are crucial for protein synthesis. Amino acids are the building blocks of muscle. Thanks

Well at least you know what Google is.

3. From what I've read, you all focus little on bodybuilding and more on power lifting. Correct? Isn't that what most of your workouts consist of? I'm guessing your workout intels quite a bit of compound movements such as power cleans, hang cleans, box squats, and more power movements? Working on speed, and strength? My workouts consist of 1-2 compounds movements depending on what split I'm currently working through. I focus on the muscle and don't give two fucks about strength. I had a strength coach throughout high school that built the "eat big, and lift bro" mentality. That mantality builds more strength than anything in my experience. I've had the most muscle gained from doing focused workouts, squeezing and contracting each muscle and feeling a huge pump. I pre-exhaust the muscle, then end my workouts with a compound movement to totally kill the muscle.Thanks

What the fuck am I even reading...

No, I've never focused on power lifting. I don't even know what power lifting routines look like outside of low reps and crazy high volume/frequency. Regardless of your strength vs. bodybuilding, you should still make compound motions your priority. Muscle-specific workouts were CREATED specifically for people on steroids BECAUSE they extend their level/duration of protein synthesis. IF you are one of those people who has a day devoted to chest and you do it once/week, you are doing it wrong. Protein synthesis peaks and then returns to baseline in natural lifters in a 24-48 hour period. Thus, you want to stimulate your muscles, where you stimulate MORE through compound movements, and then do the same thing again within 1-2 days. Once protein synthesis is back to baseline, you should be back to lifting (this includes if you're going for muscle gain). The problem with doing intense volume in a given day and sacrificing frequency (i.e., doing each muscle group once/week), is that there is a MASSIVE diminishing return on gains for each lift you do. Meaning, the amount of stimulation you get on your fourth chest exercise is but a fraction of what you got on your first.

Mathematically this means that an exponentially reduced gain per lift in a given day is suboptimal. It makes MORE sense to do 4 lifts for your chest spread across 2 different days than doing all 4 lifts in a given day UNLESS you do steroids. This is the most very basic premise of protein synthesis, which is the mechanism behind muscle gain.

If you are killing each muscle group just once per week and not doing steroids, you are doing a suboptimal routine. It does not get any more basic than that if that is the case.

4. I stated previously my 3% body fat level could be wrong. So you continuesly telling me how outrageous it is to think my level is so low is ignorant to say the least. The machine read 3%, and that's what I went by. Thanks

Right, and it's ignorant that you believed it.

5. I work twice as hard as the normal lifter to gain muscle. I have to. I pack my system full of mostly clean protein rich foods, and carbs. I'm no stickler to eating clean, but it makes me feel better throughout the day. Since focusing on bodybuilding rather than powerlifting I have gained 15-17 pounds (not sure how much is water weight), but the number on the scale is bigger, my muscles are bigger, and I'm more vascular than I've ever been. Thanks

Cool story. It is also meaningless.

6. The main reason to consume carbs post-workout is to replenish the muscle glycogen that you burned during your workout. As you train, your main fuel source is muscle glycogen. Glycogen is the storage form of glucose. It is composed of long strings of glucose molecules with numerous branches. The glucose break from the glycogen chain as needed in order to generate ATP, which transports chemical energy and is crucial for muscle contractions. The best way to replenish muscle glycogen stores after workouts is to consume high-glycemic (fast-digesting) carbs as soon as possible.

Except glycogen depletion for non-cardio athletes is rare unless you do a low carb diet. And even IF you deplete glycogen there are still other physiological systems that would not results in immediate catabolism. Even long-distance cardio athletes struggle to go catabolic. I had to bike for over 2 hours on an empty stomach to get there (this being in 2010, so a while ago).

7. The main focus of this thread was to ask about beef protein. I'd heard some good things about it. Some guys had stomach issues with whey protein powder and found comfort drinking beef protein. My former strength coach said the amino acid profile is better and it's natural. I was simply wondering if some of you guys liked it or not. Thanks

"Amino profile is better"

Awesome. So you don't know anything about them.

8. I'm young and I have much to learn. But I don't take advice well from arrogant ass hats such as yourself. I may have incorrect understandings of certain concepts, but that in no way means I'm an idiot on the matter. Everyone's body acts, and reacts differently to lifting weights, and food/supplement consumption. If you're going to be an ass, I will not take your advice. Sorry bro. Love you

Being an ass doesn't nullify knowledge brah.

[Jstampz]

1. With my current diet, I eat 7-8 egg whites every morning. Throughout the day I eat 3-4 whole eggs. (Yoke included). If I were to eat all whole eggs throughout the day. I'd be going through a dozen eggs A DAY. Egg whites are easier and more affordable to me. Thanks

How are egg whites cheaper than eggs? A carton of eggs is like $2. Where do you live where egg whites are cheaper (from a $/calorie standpoint) than an egg that is less than $0.20?

2. Amino acids are compounds that make up proteins. Amino acids are crucial for protein synthesis. Amino acids are the building blocks of muscle. Thanks

Well at least you know what Google is.

3. From what I've read, you all focus little on bodybuilding and more on power lifting. Correct? Isn't that what most of your workouts consist of? I'm guessing your workout intels quite a bit of compound movements such as power cleans, hang cleans, box squats, and more power movements? Working on speed, and strength? My workouts consist of 1-2 compounds movements depending on what split I'm currently working through. I focus on the muscle and don't give two fucks about strength. I had a strength coach throughout high school that built the "eat big, and lift bro" mentality. That mantality builds more strength than anything in my experience. I've had the most muscle gained from doing focused workouts, squeezing and contracting each muscle and feeling a huge pump. I pre-exhaust the muscle, then end my workouts with a compound movement to totally kill the muscle.Thanks

What the fuck am I even reading...

No, I've never focused on power lifting. I don't even know what power lifting routines look like outside of low reps and crazy high volume/frequency. Regardless of your strength vs. bodybuilding, you should still make compound motions your priority. Muscle-specific workouts were CREATED specifically for people on steroids BECAUSE they extend their level/duration of protein synthesis. IF you are one of those people who has a day devoted to chest and you do it once/week, you are doing it wrong. Protein synthesis peaks and then returns to baseline in natural lifters in a 24-48 hour period. Thus, you want to stimulate your muscles, where you stimulate MORE through compound movements, and then do the same thing again within 1-2 days. Once protein synthesis is back to baseline, you should be back to lifting (this includes if you're going for muscle gain). The problem with doing intense volume in a given day and sacrificing frequency (i.e., doing each muscle group once/week), is that there is a MASSIVE diminishing return on gains for each lift you do. Meaning, the amount of stimulation you get on your fourth chest exercise is but a fraction of what you got on your first.

Mathematically this means that an exponentially reduced gain per lift in a given day is suboptimal. It makes MORE sense to do 4 lifts for your chest spread across 2 different days than doing all 4 lifts in a given day UNLESS you do steroids. This is the most very basic premise of protein synthesis, which is the mechanism behind muscle gain.

If you are killing each muscle group just once per week and not doing steroids, you are doing a suboptimal routine. It does not get any more basic than that if that is the case.

4. I stated previously my 3% body fat level could be wrong. So you continuesly telling me how outrageous it is to think my level is so low is ignorant to say the least. The machine read 3%, and that's what I went by. Thanks

Right, and it's ignorant that you believed it.

5. I work twice as hard as the normal lifter to gain muscle. I have to. I pack my system full of mostly clean protein rich foods, and carbs. I'm no stickler to eating clean, but it makes me feel better throughout the day. Since focusing on bodybuilding rather than powerlifting I have gained 15-17 pounds (not sure how much is water weight), but the number on the scale is bigger, my muscles are bigger, and I'm more vascular than I've ever been. Thanks

Cool story. It is also meaningless.

6. The main reason to consume carbs post-workout is to replenish the muscle glycogen that you burned during your workout. As you train, your main fuel source is muscle glycogen. Glycogen is the storage form of glucose. It is composed of long strings of glucose molecules with numerous branches. The glucose break from the glycogen chain as needed in order to generate ATP, which transports chemical energy and is crucial for muscle contractions. The best way to replenish muscle glycogen stores after workouts is to consume high-glycemic (fast-digesting) carbs as soon as possible.

Except glycogen depletion for non-cardio athletes is rare unless you do a low carb diet. And even IF you deplete glycogen there are still other physiological systems that would not results in immediate catabolism. Even long-distance cardio athletes struggle to go catabolic. I had to bike for over 2 hours on an empty stomach to get there (this being in 2010, so a while ago).

7. The main focus of this thread was to ask about beef protein. I'd heard some good things about it. Some guys had stomach issues with whey protein powder and found comfort drinking beef protein. My former strength coach said the amino acid profile is better and it's natural. I was simply wondering if some of you guys liked it or not. Thanks

"Amino profile is better"

Awesome. So you don't know anything about them.

8. I'm young and I have much to learn. But I don't take advice well from arrogant ass hats such as yourself. I may have incorrect understandings of certain concepts, but that in no way means I'm an idiot on the matter. Everyone's body acts, and reacts differently to lifting weights, and food/supplement consumption. If you're going to be an ass, I will not take your advice. Sorry bro. Love you

Being an ass doesn't nullify knowledge brah.

Where the fuck do you get eggs for that fucking cheap?

A dozen eggs in Collierville, Tennessee is roughly $2.50-$3.00. (High tax). So if I'm going through a dozen eggs a day. 7x3=21. Roughly, depending on how much the eggs are. It's cheaper to buy two large containers of egg whites. $8.


Google, and my high school biology teacher. Thanks sweet heart

Sunday: all chest, little compound movements
Monday: Legs
Tuesday: back day
Wednesday: shoulders and traps
Thursday: chest and triceps; I incorporate compound movements to hit the triceps as well
Friday: legs
Saturday: back and bicep day

This split changes, and I'm constantly changing to confuse the muscle. I'm not completely against compound movements, but I don't make my workouts focused on compound movements. I hit every muscle group twice, except shoulders and traps because my feeder workouts are shoulder movements.

I DO NOT KNOW MUCH ABOUT BEEF PROTEIN ERGO MY FUCKING POST ABOUT IT

[kirk]

Where the fuck do you get eggs for that fucking cheap?

A dozen eggs in Collierville, Tennessee is roughly $2.50-$3.00. (High tax). So if I'm going through a dozen eggs a day. 7x3=21. Roughly, depending on how much the eggs are. It's cheaper to buy two large containers of egg whites. $8.

I've never heard of a container of egg whites being cheaper than eggs at the price PER calorie. But egg white tastes awful so I haven't bought them in a while.

Google, and my high school biology teacher. Thanks sweet heart

Then you didn't learn anything because if you understood amino acids then you'd realize your whey vs. beef question is absurd.

Sunday: all chest, little compound movements
Monday: Legs
Tuesday: back day
Wednesday: shoulders and traps
Thursday: chest and triceps; I incorporate compound movements to hit the triceps as well
Friday: legs
Saturday: back and bicep day

This split changes, and I'm constantly changing to confuse the muscle. I'm not completely against compound movements, but I don't make my workouts focused on compound movements. I hit every muscle group twice, except shoulders and traps because my feeder workouts are shoulder movements.

Right, and so based on the most rudimentary physiology, your routine is suboptimal. Cue the "but it works for me!!111!!" statement.

I DO NOT KNOW MUCH ABOUT BEEF PROTEIN ERGO MY FUCKING POST ABOUT IT

I would just generalize to "I do not know much about protein."

[Jstampz]

You know what, you are a fucking genius Alex Kirk. You must be THE SMARTEST person I've ever met. You must be some sort of performance scientist studying muscle development. Every single thing you've said, I will use in my everyday life. Thank you so much for blessing me with your almighty wisdom. You're almost as knowleable as Google. I owe you dude. I owe you big time.

[Jstampz]

Where the fuck do you get eggs for that fucking cheap?

A dozen eggs in Collierville, Tennessee is roughly $2.50-$3.00. (High tax). So if I'm going through a dozen eggs a day. 7x3=21. Roughly, depending on how much the eggs are. It's cheaper to buy two large containers of egg whites. $8.

I've never heard of a container of egg whites being cheaper than eggs at the price PER calorie. But egg white tastes awful so I haven't bought them in a while.

Google, and my high school biology teacher. Thanks sweet heart

Then you didn't learn anything because if you understood amino acids then you'd realize your whey vs. beef question is absurd.

Sunday: all chest, little compound movements
Monday: Legs
Tuesday: back day
Wednesday: shoulders and traps
Thursday: chest and triceps; I incorporate compound movements to hit the triceps as well
Friday: legs
Saturday: back and bicep day

This split changes, and I'm constantly changing to confuse the muscle. I'm not completely against compound movements, but I don't make my workouts focused on compound movements. I hit every muscle group twice, except shoulders and traps because my feeder workouts are shoulder movements.

Right, and so based on the most rudimentary physiology, your routine is suboptimal. Cue the "but it works for me!!111!!" statement.

I DO NOT KNOW MUCH ABOUT BEEF PROTEIN ERGO MY FUCKING POST ABOUT IT

I would just generalize to "I do not know much about protein."

Dude, it was a simple question if people liked Beef protein supplement over a Whey Protein supplement.

You've busted my balls, now let me recooperate with my eggs whites, and protein shake


Egg whites aren't cheaper, but at my consumption level, whole eggs are 5-7$ more.

[rymoz]

Why lift when it's all about the face?

[sevEN]

im going to cook me a plate of 24 egg whites and a tall glass of water w/ 5 scoops of whey while i watch alex rape everyone

[stile]

Good ol 1911. It never fails. How a simple post can turn into a flame war.

[Beas]

im going to cook me a plate of 24 egg whites and a tall glass of water w/ 5 scoops of whey while i watch alex rape everyone

yes, alex is saying a lot of things right...he just going about it wrong and being an ass for no reason. But there are some things alex is saying that he is wrong about.

[Jstampz]

im going to cook me a plate of 24 egg whites and a tall glass of water w/ 5 scoops of whey while i watch alex rape everyone

yes, alex is saying a lot of things right...he just going about it wrong and being an ass for no reason. But there are some things he is saying that he is wrong about.

[Jstampz]

I'm still wondering as to why my workout is so "suboptimal". My workouts are focused getting the greatest pump possible. I pre-exhaust the muscle with movements that stretch the muscle fibers and force tons of blood into the muscle, then jump into compound movements, followed by more muscle focused workouts.

So if I were to workout chest and tris.

My workout would look something like this:

Bent over cable flys changing from the squeeze at the bottom of my pectoral muscle, and upper pectoral muscle.
5 sets of 10-16. (Wide rep range because I go by feel rather than number) I pyramid in weight.
Paired with cable rope push downs 5 sets of as many as possible pyramiding in weight.

Then I make my way to bench press. Some days I use smith machine, some days I use free weight. I start with 225 lbs for 8 reps, slow and controlled contracting the muscle throughout the movement. I don't lock my arms out because it fires in your tricep and I want to focus on the chest. I'll then pyramid down in weight and add 3-4 reps per added weight. 4 sets with a final burn out set at 135 lbs
Paired with weighted dips. 4 sets of as many as possible

Then I do incline bench press. Sticking with the same weight for 3 sets. 3 sets for as many as reps as possible
Paired with straight cable bar push downs. 3 sets of as many as possible- starting heavy and working my way down. Burn out set with a medium weight. (A weight I can get a good 8 reps with)

Then I work my way to some sort of chest press machine. Either low or high. I'll stack 90 lbs on each side, and hit it for 12 reps, then pyramid down I weight while controlling the movement.
Paired with skull crushers. 4 sets on both

Then I'll hit another pectoral machine. Depending on how I feel, and where I need the most work. 3-4 sets of as many as possible with a heavy weight.
Paired with overhead tricep extensions

Then I'll finish off with a drop set on bent over cable flys
Paired with bent over DB cable extensions. Start with 10lbs and work my way up to 35 lbs for 8 reps.
3 sets and I'm done.

My pectoral muscles are stretched to the max, full of blood and throbbing. Even in my compound movements I try to focus on one muscle at a time. Of course with bench press, your shoulder can activate easily, but I try to squeeze the shit out of the muscles I'm working.

[sevEN]

15 meals a day at 200 cals per meal = fastest metabolism, saw it on the cover of men's health magazine with a picture of brad pit's face.

[sevEN]

and stamp, in my 2 posts i made it absolutely clear i was not insulting you and that i respect what you're doing, but you felt the need to bash me anyways. not sure why.. but regardless of my physique right now, i can guarantee that nothing you are doing / have ever done is as difficult as losing 115 pounds in 8 months. when you accomplish something with your fitness or in life in general that i can consider impressive, i will let you know. until then, fuck you and your "3% body fat"

[sevEN]

current physique =/= knowledge, as you have very clearly proven to us all

[Jstampz]

and stamp, in my 2 posts i made it absolutely clear i was not insulting you and that i respect what you're doing, but you felt the need to bash me anyways. not sure why.. but regardless of my physique right now, i can guarantee that nothing you are doing / have ever done is as difficult as losing 115 pounds in 8 months. when you accomplish something with your fitness or in life in general that i can consider impressive, i will let you know. until then, fuck you and your "3% body fat"

My apologies. I mixed yours and Kirks post. Didn't mean to offend you with the weight comment, I was just indicating my metabolism is quicker than most of your alls.

[Jstampz]

I was watching Rich Piana's video series "Bigger By The Day", and saw him eating a protein cookie.

I fucking love cookies so I looked up possible protein cookies.

Lenny and Larry's Complete Cookie. I'm no vegan, but I'm always up for more protein (assuming you have to eat 7-8 regular cookies to meet a protein goal of 20g of protein?).

These cookies are fucking good. I'll add one whenever I want a snack. A little pricey, but worth the extra penny.

[kirk]

Why lift when it's all about the face?

GOAT post.

yes, alex is saying a lot of things right...he just going about it wrong and being an ass for no reason. But there are some things alex is saying that he is wrong about.

Feel free to elucidate. I'm open to being wrong so long as there's actual counter-evidence.

I'm still wondering as to why my workout is so "suboptimal". My workouts are focused getting the greatest pump possible. I pre-exhaust the muscle with movements that stretch the muscle fibers and force tons of blood into the muscle, then jump into compound movements, followed by more muscle focused workouts.

So if I were to workout chest and tris...

A few things:

1) If you're getting 225 pounds on bench for eight reps after doing a chest exercise prior, then why do you need to come here for advice? If you're TRULY lifting that weight, which in all honesty is great for someone your age, then you should have zero problems developing mass irrespective of what the rest of your routine looks like. If you're not, then you're simply not eating enough and need to incorporate more fat-dense foods to compensate. When you are gaining mass, you can take some of the focus off protein; a high calorie diet will naturally get you sufficient protein. If you aren't gaining then I would focus way more on fat.

2) The problem is a fundamental misunderstanding of the mechanisms of muscle gain. It's tough NOT to gain strength and/or mass so long as you lift regularly, but it's a question of making optimal gains. The underlying goal is maximizing protein synthesis as much as possible from a temporal standpoint. That is, to have protein synthesis elevated to the point of anabolism for as long as possible every day/week/month. You seem to be approaching this from the perspective that is INTENDED for lifters who use steroids (i.e., hit each muscle group less times/week, but at a greater volume each time). For these individuals, you can lift once per week and stimulate protein synthesis for anywhere between 5-10 days depending on dose. As such, for them, lifting once for any given muscle group means you do not need to touch that muscle group again for ~1 week. The whole "hit one muscle group with a billion lifts in a single day" routine was made for steroid users. Period. Any natural lifter who tries to adopt that routine is misunderstanding the physiological difference for non-steroid lifters and will not be working at an optimum rate.

So if the goal is to maximize protein synthesis and steroid users do so by taking steroids to synthetically raise those levels, what do natural lifters do? Simple, they hit their muscles across more days in a given week. Hitting each muscle group 3x per week > 1-2x per week whether you're going for mass OR strength. So this highlights a trade-off between of two options:

a) Greater volume of lifting across fewer days (e.g., hit chest 1-2x per week, but do 5 exercises each time)
b) Greater frequency of lifting across more days (e.g., hit chest 3-4x per week, but do 2-3 exercises each time)

For natural lifters, option b has clearly been shown to be better for two reasons:

1) Already explained above, frequency = key. You will elevate protein synthesis MORE than with option a. Protein synthesis in natural lifters peaks after 24-48 hours, and after that time if you are not lifting again, then you are not gaining anymore. So frequency helps in gaining muscle throughout the week rather than confining it to 3-4 days total.

2) The argument AGAINST favoring volume is the diminishing ROI for each lift. That is, for every time you hit a given muscle group in a given session, the next lift you do for it will be exponentially less meaningful in terms of stimulating protein synthesis. So if protein synthesis operates on a scale of 0-100 (high - low protein synthesis stimulation), your first chest exercise will be 100 (ideally if we're talking compound lifts). Your next chest exercise will be 80. After that, 50. After that, 20. Etc. Clearly I picked arbitrary numbers, but solely to illustrate that this is an exponential decrease and not a linear one: the difference in muscle stimulation you get between lifts 1 and 2 is smaller than the difference between lifts 3 and 4. That is, as you continue to hit a given muscle group in a single session, the amount of "good" you are doing goes down pretty massively with each lift.

So in the frequency vs. volume debate, frequency wins hands down. You don't get protein synthesis peaked as much as with the volume-based routine, but that is offset and then some by greater frequency. Going by the numbers above:

Volume: 100+80+50+20 across 2 days = "500"
Frequency: 100+80 across 3-4 days = "540" - "720"

If you have all day to lift and are a natural pro bodybuilder, then you can collapse these two and do heavy volume and frequency. But for most of us in the real world who aren't paid to do so, we typically have to trade off between these.

The other thing to note as that "feeling a pump" isn't all that meaningful in terms of actual muscle gain. How you FEEL is less important than what's happening at the molecular level of actual protein synthesis. What we seem to know based on physiological data is that incremental weight increase in terms of the amount of weight you are lifting is far more predictive of muscle (and strength) gains than feeling a pump. Pay less attention to how your muscles feel and more attention to whether you are adding weight to the bar each week or not. Feeling a pump without adding weight to the bar for a year means very little. Feeling no pump while continually adding weight to the bar for a year means a fuck ton.

Compound lifts are better and you should favor those more than isolated movements. Again, this is important for natural lifters because it leads to greater muscle stimulation and greater protein synthesis across multiple muscle groups.

[Jstampz]

Is there a way to continue the stimulation throughout the week?

Ex. Having consistency 80-80-80-70. Or something to that effect.

I've always hit muscle groups 2x a week, and 3x a week if a certain muscle group isn't "up to par". But I'll have to try hitting muscle groups more often.

[Jstampz]

Why lift when it's all about the face?

GOAT post.

yes, alex is saying a lot of things right...he just going about it wrong and being an ass for no reason. But there are some things alex is saying that he is wrong about.

Feel free to elucidate. I'm open to being wrong so long as there's actual counter-evidence.

I'm still wondering as to why my workout is so "suboptimal". My workouts are focused getting the greatest pump possible. I pre-exhaust the muscle with movements that stretch the muscle fibers and force tons of blood into the muscle, then jump into compound movements, followed by more muscle focused workouts.

So if I were to workout chest and tris...

A few things:

1) If you're getting 225 pounds on bench for eight reps after doing a chest exercise prior, then why do you need to come here for advice? If you're TRULY lifting that weight, which in all honesty is great for someone your age, then you should have zero problems developing mass irrespective of what the rest of your routine looks like. If you're not, then you're simply not eating enough and need to incorporate more fat-dense foods to compensate. When you are gaining mass, you can take some of the focus off protein; a high calorie diet will naturally get you sufficient protein. If you aren't gaining then I would focus way more on fat.

2) The problem is a fundamental misunderstanding of the mechanisms of muscle gain. It's tough NOT to gain strength and/or mass so long as you lift regularly, but it's a question of making optimal gains. The underlying goal is maximizing protein synthesis as much as possible from a temporal standpoint. That is, to have protein synthesis elevated to the point of anabolism for as long as possible every day/week/month. You seem to be approaching this from the perspective that is INTENDED for lifters who use steroids (i.e., hit each muscle group less times/week, but at a greater volume each time). For these individuals, you can lift once per week and stimulate protein synthesis for anywhere between 5-10 days depending on dose. As such, for them, lifting once for any given muscle group means you do not need to touch that muscle group again for ~1 week. The whole "hit one muscle group with a billion lifts in a single day" routine was made for steroid users. Period. Any natural lifter who tries to adopt that routine is misunderstanding the physiological difference for non-steroid lifters and will not be working at an optimum rate.

So if the goal is to maximize protein synthesis and steroid users do so by taking steroids to synthetically raise those levels, what do natural lifters do? Simple, they hit their muscles across more days in a given week. Hitting each muscle group 3x per week > 1-2x per week whether you're going for mass OR strength. So this highlights a trade-off between of two options:

a) Greater volume of lifting across fewer days (e.g., hit chest 1-2x per week, but do 5 exercises each time)
b) Greater frequency of lifting across more days (e.g., hit chest 3-4x per week, but do 2-3 exercises each time)

For natural lifters, option b has clearly been shown to be better for two reasons:

1) Already explained above, frequency = key. You will elevate protein synthesis MORE than with option a. Protein synthesis in natural lifters peaks after 24-48 hours, and after that time if you are not lifting again, then you are not gaining anymore. So frequency helps in gaining muscle throughout the week rather than confining it to 3-4 days total.

2) The argument AGAINST favoring volume is the diminishing ROI for each lift. That is, for every time you hit a given muscle group in a given session, the next lift you do for it will be exponentially less meaningful in terms of stimulating protein synthesis. So if protein synthesis operates on a scale of 0-100 (high - low protein synthesis stimulation), your first chest exercise will be 100 (ideally if we're talking compound lifts). Your next chest exercise will be 80. After that, 50. After that, 20. Etc. Clearly I picked arbitrary numbers, but solely to illustrate that this is an exponential decrease and not a linear one: the difference in muscle stimulation you get between lifts 1 and 2 is smaller than the difference between lifts 3 and 4. That is, as you continue to hit a given muscle group in a single session, the amount of "good" you are doing goes down pretty massively with each lift.

So in the frequency vs. volume debate, frequency wins hands down. You don't get protein synthesis peaked as much as with the volume-based routine, but that is offset and then some by greater frequency. Going by the numbers above:

Volume: 100+80+50+20 across 2 days = "500"
Frequency: 100+80 across 3-4 days = "540" - "720"

If you have all day to lift and are a natural pro bodybuilder, then you can collapse these two and do heavy volume and frequency. But for most of us in the real world who aren't paid to do so, we typically have to trade off between these.

The other thing to note as that "feeling a pump" isn't all that meaningful in terms of actual muscle gain. How you FEEL is less important than what's happening at the molecular level of actual protein synthesis. What we seem to know based on physiological data is that incremental weight increase in terms of the amount of weight you are lifting is far more predictive of muscle (and strength) gains than feeling a pump. Pay less attention to how your muscles feel and more attention to whether you are adding weight to the bar each week or not. Feeling a pump without adding weight to the bar for a year means very little. Feeling no pump while continually adding weight to the bar for a year means a fuck ton.

Compound lifts are better and you should favor those more than isolated movements. Again, this is important for natural lifters because it leads to greater muscle stimulation and greater protein synthesis across multiple muscle groups.

I'll only do heavy flat bench 1-2 times a week. Sometimes I'll start with 205 rather than 225 to shock the muscle and add more reps. I mix in drop sets, and pyramid weight.

Now, what about over training?
After that chest workout I posted, I'm still sore today and couldn't think to hit 225 for anymore than 5 reps.

Would you recommend less chest workouts per workout, and more chest workouts throughout the week?