knockout wrote:Why mention carries when AP averages 6.3 YPC? SIX. POINT. THREE. IN THE NFL. WHEN THE OTHER TEAM KNOWS THAT CHRISTIAN PONDER IS YOUR QUARTERBACK.
Also, Dan hasn't followed football since Johnny Unitas retired gg rofl you're old420
I appreciate the caps and the broken sentences with periods to put emphasis on just how fucking insane of a season he is having. here are some great points regarding what he's doing.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1449 ... ryone-else
scorch- wrote:
Don't bother arguing with vpaz. Kid's a retard. I haven't followed football since the Rams left LA, but Bo Jackson was the best gg. 4.12 40 at 220 lbs, if it weren't for that freak hip injury...
i definitely acknowledge how insanely talented, physically gifted, and athletic bo jackson was. and it is a shame he couldnt stick with football and/or avoid that hip injury. but peterson is starting to put together such a complete body of work at this point in his career that after this season, we need to start looking at his place among the greatest RB of all time, not just in the game today. bo jackson has such a small sample size and incomplete body of work in the nfl that it is hard to include him in such discussions, unless we are talking about potential or physical freaks.
SKiNnTo wrote:He can't be the "GOAT" yet, needs more time in the league. And I don't think he'll be in the league in 7-8 years. 3-4 years is the average for an NFL player.
if you are comparing adrian peterson to the "average player" in the nfl as far as years played, then you really don't know how to judge a player. the average player would still be rehabbing his knee injury. AP is breaking the rushing record. he is obviously a very special player. unless he sustains another 1 or 2 devastating, career threatening type injuries, i guarantee you he will be in the league in 7 years. take that one to the bank.
Miller` wrote:Bo Jackson was the most talented, but not the GOAT because of that injury. Much like Barry Sanders may have beent he GOAT but quit about three years too soon.
GOAT = Jerry Rice then Walter Payton.
AP has a chance, just needs more time and not get injured again.
By the way, Calvin Johnson has a chance to break the single-season receiving record and also has nothing else going on for him.
i still wouldnt consider bo jackson the "most talented". i would say he was the best athlete and most physically gifted... but it's hard to compare "talent". one could say tom brady is much more "talented" than bo jackson, yet they are nowhere near the same planet when it comes to being an athlete. im actually surprised that bo jackson is getting so much love in a "greatest running back of all time" debate. there isnt a single football historian or football analyst that would name bo jackson if you asked him "tell me your top 5 running backs of all time" and i'd go as far as to say 99% wouldnt include him if you asked for the top 10.
barry sanders would probably take the cake if not for retiring too soon, as you mentioned.
and jerry rice the greatest player?? ehhhhhh i have a different opinion on jerry rice. jerry rice had such amazing hall of famers around him for his entire career. he was also a VERY big beneficiary of walsh's west coast offense which was so new at the time that defenses didnt have a way to defend it for such a long time. very much a system player imo. you can plug in another above average WR and he could have put up close to the same numbers as jerry rice given he played as long. not saying he isnt one of the greatest of all time, but i dont hold him as high as most do.
and calvin johnson is having an incredible year also. but... it just doesnt compare to what AP is doing. johnson is being defended by 2 guys at a time and being thrown to by an elite QB. adrian peterson is being defended by 8 and 9 in the box and is beating them on a consistent basis, despite the entire stadium knowing he is getting the ball. lions actually have a good amount of weapons to compliment calvin johnson. vikings will throw gerhart for the very occasional screen pass on 3rd and 22, but that's it. a team can pass aaaallll day long and if they are good at it, they can get away with it. no need for a run game. just ask the pats. but for a team like the vikings who runs runs runs, that is something that is NOT supposed to work. not at all. but it does because we have the best rb in the league by far.
showtime wrote:
+1. I'd put Jim Brown right up there in the greatest RB conversation though, maybe even ahead of Payton. Only played 8 or 9 years which probably hurt him plus they only had 14 games in a season back then.
jim brown has to be up there for sure. but one thing to consider about jim brown is that he played at a time when he weighed 240 and ran a 4.3, and every single dude on the field trying to tackle him were playing football as a 2nd job and went to work to support the family. over time and after watching countless jim brown highlights, ive come to the conclusion that he was a giant strong RB who could run fast in a straight line once he got going, and was playing against 170 lb middle school teachers and construction workers who suited up on sundays on their day off. but you cant keep him out of the top 5 even if you tried. if my memory is correct, he lead the league in rushing every single year he played. that is just absurd.
walter payton is probably my pick for best running back of all time if i had to choose one.
Polak wrote:AP has been the best running back the last five years.
He will go into the Hall of Fame and he might be the GOAT when it comes to the RB position if he keeps it up for another five.
He still needs a few years to be put passed Marshal Faulk, Emmith Smith, Barry Sanders, Walter Payton and who knows if he will ever touch Jim Brown who averaged more than a TD per game.
I would say he's about to Pass OJ Simpson when it comes to the all time greats. I'm sorry Joey but you are too much of a Vikings fan which makes you overly biased to the situation. The Guy is amazing, but it's been only five years. I might consider LT to be better. He set so many records over a span of four years and he's barley in the TOP 10
i agree with pretty much everything you said, but i dont think i am being overly biased. when i made the thread, i didnt mean to make it seem like i was literally touting him as the #1 greatest of all time. i was just excited to get a discussion going about him and his accomplishments this season. but he is at the point where you need to start considering him very high in the conversation when you take into account all of the different factors surrounding his situation and entire career.
and to be clear, he is 2 games from finishing his 6th season. jim brown is considered by most to be the GOAT after just playing 9. i think after the 6 seasons AP has had, we can put him in the same conversation and eventually put him atop of the conversation after another 4-5.
scorch- wrote:I think you're all dumb if you think longevity and accomplishments are part of the equation. Greatest of All Time means if you could pick any player (in their prime) to play a position on your team right now, who would it be?
this reminds me of the qualifications to make the hall of fame. or even the MVP award. there are a certain number of voters, and each one of them have different criteria that they use to judge a player and make a decision. they also have much different interpretations of the meaning of MVP or GOAT. i think what you just described dan has to be asked more specifically, just like you just phrased it. if you ask it that way, and you are asking for a RB at the top of his prime, bo jackson will be very high on that list for a lot of people. but for me it has to do with the entire body of work. there are so many things that go into wether or not a player is great. i like to take into consideration eeeeeeeeeeeeverything from stats, to superbowls, to longevity, to consistency, to performance in big games, to raw talent, to physical abilities, to mental toughness and attitude, to what he does to the opposing defenses and/or defensive coordinators.. and those are just a few off the top of my head. so many things. and if you break them down individually, you might have a different running back who is the best at each category. but i feel like it's about the players who are at or near the top of as many categories as possible. so that when you combine all of that into 1, you get a player that is the greatest or one of the greatest.
scorch- wrote:it was mostly just poking fun at the hardcore vikings homer posting about his team's running back having a great season.
homer? gimme a break. i definitely do not qualify as a homer. anyone who has talked football with me over the years knows that i am a realist when it comes to the vikings and i just say it how it is. and my unbiased opinion is that AP is entering the point in his career where we can start putting him in the conversation of greatest of all time. and im sure there are plenty of packers and bears "homers" who would agree with me after the beatings they have been taking for the past 6 years and will take the next 6-7.
Polak wrote: "Some consider the 2009 season of Chris Johnson to be one of the best ever in NFL history for a running back.[13] He rushed for 2,006 yards[14] to become one of only six players in NFL history to be in the 2000 rushing yards club. He averaged 5.6 yards per carry and 125.4 yards per game to lead the league.[15] He had 2,509 total yards from scrimmage, breaking Marshall Faulk's single-season record.
if you think he had such an incredible season, just realize that AP is on pace and about to crush every one of those stats you just mentioned. just sayin.
Miller` wrote:AP is a couple seasons away before entering it. Peyton Manning and Tom Brady are just getting there now.
i disagree with that statement a little bit. i feel like AP is entering it and manning/brady have been there for a while now. i mean, manning was voted 8th best player in nfl history, and that was after the 2010 season.
-------------------------
anyways... i am an obsessive football fanatic and i have very much enjoyed reading through and responding to a lot of your posts. im glad this thread got so much input and opinions.
[quote="knockout"]Why mention carries when AP averages 6.3 YPC? SIX. POINT. THREE. IN THE NFL. WHEN THE OTHER TEAM KNOWS THAT CHRISTIAN PONDER IS YOUR QUARTERBACK.
Also, Dan hasn't followed football since Johnny Unitas retired gg rofl you're old420[/quote]
I appreciate the caps and the broken sentences with periods to put emphasis on just how fucking insane of a season he is having. here are some great points regarding what he's doing. http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1449738-nfl-mvp-race-its-adrian-peterson-and-everyone-else
[quote="scorch-"]
Don't bother arguing with vpaz. Kid's a retard. I haven't followed football since the Rams left LA, but Bo Jackson was the best gg. 4.12 40 at 220 lbs, if it weren't for that freak hip injury...[/quote]
i definitely acknowledge how insanely talented, physically gifted, and athletic bo jackson was. and it is a shame he couldnt stick with football and/or avoid that hip injury. but peterson is starting to put together such a complete body of work at this point in his career that after this season, we need to start looking at his place among the greatest RB of all time, not just in the game today. bo jackson has such a small sample size and incomplete body of work in the nfl that it is hard to include him in such discussions, unless we are talking about potential or physical freaks.
[quote="SKiNnTo"]He can't be the "GOAT" yet, needs more time in the league. And I don't think he'll be in the league in 7-8 years. 3-4 years is the average for an NFL player.[/quote]
if you are comparing adrian peterson to the "average player" in the nfl as far as years played, then you really don't know how to judge a player. the average player would still be rehabbing his knee injury. AP is breaking the rushing record. he is obviously a very special player. unless he sustains another 1 or 2 devastating, career threatening type injuries, i guarantee you he will be in the league in 7 years. take that one to the bank.
[quote="Miller`"]Bo Jackson was the most talented, but not the GOAT because of that injury. Much like Barry Sanders may have beent he GOAT but quit about three years too soon.
GOAT = Jerry Rice then Walter Payton.
AP has a chance, just needs more time and not get injured again.
By the way, Calvin Johnson has a chance to break the single-season receiving record and also has nothing else going on for him.[/quote]
i still wouldnt consider bo jackson the "most talented". i would say he was the best athlete and most physically gifted... but it's hard to compare "talent". one could say tom brady is much more "talented" than bo jackson, yet they are nowhere near the same planet when it comes to being an athlete. im actually surprised that bo jackson is getting so much love in a "greatest running back of all time" debate. there isnt a single football historian or football analyst that would name bo jackson if you asked him "tell me your top 5 running backs of all time" and i'd go as far as to say 99% wouldnt include him if you asked for the top 10.
barry sanders would probably take the cake if not for retiring too soon, as you mentioned.
and jerry rice the greatest player?? ehhhhhh i have a different opinion on jerry rice. jerry rice had such amazing hall of famers around him for his entire career. he was also a VERY big beneficiary of walsh's west coast offense which was so new at the time that defenses didnt have a way to defend it for such a long time. very much a system player imo. you can plug in another above average WR and he could have put up close to the same numbers as jerry rice given he played as long. not saying he isnt one of the greatest of all time, but i dont hold him as high as most do.
and calvin johnson is having an incredible year also. but... it just doesnt compare to what AP is doing. johnson is being defended by 2 guys at a time and being thrown to by an elite QB. adrian peterson is being defended by 8 and 9 in the box and is beating them on a consistent basis, despite the entire stadium knowing he is getting the ball. lions actually have a good amount of weapons to compliment calvin johnson. vikings will throw gerhart for the very occasional screen pass on 3rd and 22, but that's it. a team can pass aaaallll day long and if they are good at it, they can get away with it. no need for a run game. just ask the pats. but for a team like the vikings who runs runs runs, that is something that is NOT supposed to work. not at all. but it does because we have the best rb in the league by far.
[quote="showtime"]
+1. I'd put Jim Brown right up there in the greatest RB conversation though, maybe even ahead of Payton. Only played 8 or 9 years which probably hurt him plus they only had 14 games in a season back then.[/quote]
jim brown has to be up there for sure. but one thing to consider about jim brown is that he played at a time when he weighed 240 and ran a 4.3, and every single dude on the field trying to tackle him were playing football as a 2nd job and went to work to support the family. over time and after watching countless jim brown highlights, ive come to the conclusion that he was a giant strong RB who could run fast in a straight line once he got going, and was playing against 170 lb middle school teachers and construction workers who suited up on sundays on their day off. but you cant keep him out of the top 5 even if you tried. if my memory is correct, he lead the league in rushing every single year he played. that is just absurd.
walter payton is probably my pick for best running back of all time if i had to choose one.
[quote="Polak"]AP has been the best running back the last five years.
He will go into the Hall of Fame and he might be the GOAT when it comes to the RB position if he keeps it up for another five.
He still needs a few years to be put passed Marshal Faulk, Emmith Smith, Barry Sanders, Walter Payton and who knows if he will ever touch Jim Brown who averaged more than a TD per game.
I would say he's about to Pass OJ Simpson when it comes to the all time greats. I'm sorry Joey but you are too much of a Vikings fan which makes you overly biased to the situation. The Guy is amazing, but it's been only five years. I might consider LT to be better. He set so many records over a span of four years and he's barley in the TOP 10[/quote]
i agree with pretty much everything you said, but i dont think i am being overly biased. when i made the thread, i didnt mean to make it seem like i was literally touting him as the #1 greatest of all time. i was just excited to get a discussion going about him and his accomplishments this season. but he is at the point where you need to start considering him very high in the conversation when you take into account all of the different factors surrounding his situation and entire career.
and to be clear, he is 2 games from finishing his 6th season. jim brown is considered by most to be the GOAT after just playing 9. i think after the 6 seasons AP has had, we can put him in the same conversation and eventually put him atop of the conversation after another 4-5.
[quote="scorch-"]I think you're all dumb if you think longevity and accomplishments are part of the equation. Greatest of All Time means if you could pick any player (in their prime) to play a position on your team right now, who would it be?[/quote]
this reminds me of the qualifications to make the hall of fame. or even the MVP award. there are a certain number of voters, and each one of them have different criteria that they use to judge a player and make a decision. they also have much different interpretations of the meaning of MVP or GOAT. i think what you just described dan has to be asked more specifically, just like you just phrased it. if you ask it that way, and you are asking for a RB at the top of his prime, bo jackson will be very high on that list for a lot of people. but for me it has to do with the entire body of work. there are so many things that go into wether or not a player is great. i like to take into consideration eeeeeeeeeeeeverything from stats, to superbowls, to longevity, to consistency, to performance in big games, to raw talent, to physical abilities, to mental toughness and attitude, to what he does to the opposing defenses and/or defensive coordinators.. and those are just a few off the top of my head. so many things. and if you break them down individually, you might have a different running back who is the best at each category. but i feel like it's about the players who are at or near the top of as many categories as possible. so that when you combine all of that into 1, you get a player that is the greatest or one of the greatest.
[quote="scorch-"]it was mostly just poking fun at the hardcore vikings homer posting about his team's running back having a great season.
[/quote]
homer? gimme a break. i definitely do not qualify as a homer. anyone who has talked football with me over the years knows that i am a realist when it comes to the vikings and i just say it how it is. and my unbiased opinion is that AP is entering the point in his career where we can start putting him in the conversation of greatest of all time. and im sure there are plenty of packers and bears "homers" who would agree with me after the beatings they have been taking for the past 6 years and will take the next 6-7.
[quote="Polak"] "Some consider the 2009 season of Chris Johnson to be one of the best ever in NFL history for a running back.[13] He rushed for 2,006 yards[14] to become one of only six players in NFL history to be in the 2000 rushing yards club. He averaged 5.6 yards per carry and 125.4 yards per game to lead the league.[15] He had 2,509 total yards from scrimmage, breaking Marshall Faulk's single-season record.[/quote]
if you think he had such an incredible season, just realize that AP is on pace and about to crush every one of those stats you just mentioned. just sayin.
[quote="Miller`"]AP is a couple seasons away before entering it. Peyton Manning and Tom Brady are just getting there now.[/quote]
i disagree with that statement a little bit. i feel like AP is entering it and manning/brady have been there for a while now. i mean, manning was voted 8th best player in nfl history, and that was after the 2010 season.
-------------------------
anyways... i am an obsessive football fanatic and i have very much enjoyed reading through and responding to a lot of your posts. im glad this thread got so much input and opinions.